Home made log loaders???

[steveo_1]

Has anyone made any log loaders for their mill? I have an old frontend loader from a tractor and would like to use the cylinders for log loaders, but not sure how to go about doing it.Would i have to have another hydro pump to push these things? They are pretty good sized cylinders. Any pictures or info or ideas would be appreciated.

[Fla._Deadheader]

What kind of mill do you have?  What size are the cylinders? How sturdy is the mill frame? Do you have 12V on the mill and a GOOD charging system?

   Answer these and I will try to help you get an idea of what you need, to proceed. It's not real difficult, if you can meet certain aspects.

[BW_Williams]

Funny you should ask, Steveo, I'm currently gathering parts for a log loader for my trailer, have about half the parts and it's looking good.  Did order a new 36" grapple and rotator from Valby, going to look for more parts this AM.  Have you seen a WM hydraulic loader?,  they're pretty basic.  Good luck, BWW

[DanG]

Steveo, what's the story on this f/e loader you have?  I'm looking for a used one to put on my tractor. If we could get together, (lots of ifs)  I might buy yours, and you could buy new parts for your log loader. ???

[steveo_1]

Fla,i have an old enercraft mill, the frame is pretty stout but i was gonna put a bigger piece of channel around it where i would put the cylinders just for some insurance.The cylinders are about 2' long and looks like 1 1/2" pistons.As for the charging system i dont have an alternator on it just the system thats on the engine itself, it only runs the hydralic controls and ignition system.       BWW I've seen WM's loaders but only in pics and they were not too clear or close up, but gives me a good idea on design.Are WM's loaders pretty strong?                                

[Tom]

Some mills have loaders that use the frame of the mill for the entire weight of the log.  Some, like Wood Mizer, have a design where the weight of the log is transferred to the ground and it takes some of the load off of the mill.  I like the second scenario best. Harold's loader works like that too.

[Fla._Deadheader]

YUP, they are strong.

  The cylinders go behind the loading forks. The height of the bed dictates the length of the cylinders.

   I will see if I can find my pics in the gallery and re-post 'em, later, this evening.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Here's a pic showing the loader in the "folded" position, for transport.










  Here's a pic of the loader in working mode.

[Swede]

steveo_1............(^__^)

THATS what I´m doing these days! Building loglifter (1200 Kg) and log rotation at my saw mill.  I think "Amerika-Sågen" is a copy of an old Enercraft. Have most of the drawings made but still changing them sometimes. Have spent a lot of hours at this drawings and counting power and angles so You don´t have to "invent the wheel"


Have lost some files and funktions on my computer but get a new and frech installation in a couple of weeks. Of that reason and because I don´t want to take the risk destroying all funktions I can´t make pictures here. :O (and have no smiley library)
Think I can send drawings by mail,  Steveo_1, can You (or any one else) help me get the drawings as pictures here? I´ll be happy sharing them with anyone who can use them.

Tom, OF COURSE the weight from the log goes to ground and NOT to the saw mill! ;)

Swede.

[Swede]

Fla._Deadheader;

How heavy logs do You load whith that loader?
 
I´ve used a little more steel. What pressure do You use and the total area of the hydraulic cylinders?

I use two cyl. Ø40x250mm bolted 195mm from rotating center and the load center 600mm out from rot. center. Had a #%%>:[ getting place for the cylinders, right angles, the loader close to the mill and not  too high loader.

Do You know if my 18 Hp engine has power for a 11,2 cc Hydraulic pump at 3200rpm and the overflow at 150 Bar?
I think it´s just what it´s able to, right or wrong?

Swede.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Swede, No habla EL Swedish Metrics ;D :D

  THIS will get me in DEEP do do, but, been there before : :

  When we designed our mill, we used the pencil and paper for SKETCHING. When it came to MAKING, we used thin strips of Aluminum, and bent them into whatever shape we needed, to get something to function correctly. Drawing things out, and making changes to the drawing, over and over, AIN"T productive.   (That ought to get these Engineers attention)  ;D ;D ;D :D

  When the mill frame is at the working height that you want, measure the height and put on the tabs for the forks, Tack weld them, so they can be adjusted if necessary. You then can measure what goes where. The cylinder length is the tricky part. It must be able to push the forks up so that the top of the forks are just above the bed of the mill, about 1" or so, yet not mash the log against the ends of the log bunks, if they are higher than the frame, as ours are and WM's are. The forks must be outside the cylinders, so the package is neat and functional.

  We made the assembly that the forks rest in and that attaches the supports for the mill-to-ground strain, before we did any fork building. (in the pics, it is the brown colored "U" shaped channel thingy). Make that flexible enough for adjustment. It is .087" thick stock, or, 1/8th" thick.

  The thickness of the forks, when they are bent to shape to house the cylinders, will dictate the height of the attachment tab for the cylinder. The length of the top area, before bending to head to the ground, will HAVE to be enough for the cylinder to be placed between the channel and the leg of the fork. You need to measure the overall width of the cylinder to get this measurement.

  Fortunately, we had several things we could work on, so, once we knew what cylinders we needed, we ordered and waited about 10 days for delivery.

  We built the mill with stuff we had laying around, as much as possible. The hydraulic pump is WAAAYY overkill, and actually requires more power to run it than we estimated. Someday, we will change the system, but, it works and is strong.  I would get an electric power pak from a salvage yard that has a derelict forklift, unless you can afford new. I bought 1 on Ebay for $75.00 + S&H for the second mill we want to build.  If it works on a forklift, it WILL load logs.

  In the beginning, we had problems lifting the load off the ground. The higher the log gets, the easier to get it there.  I reduced the size of the hoses and slowed down the volume of the oil going into the clyinders, so we did not "Flood" the cylinders, so to speak, and overload the pump motor. That solved the lifting problem.

  We can lift a 38" log, that is 12 feet long, and soaking wet from the river. Never added scales to the lifting system : :D :D  Everone confused so far  ;D :D :D :D :D ??

[steveo_1]

Fla. nice pics of the loader,nice loader too!This will give me a good clue as to how to start this thing,but i have a few ???.Do you think a power steering pump off an old car would be enough to push these cylinders?I have also thought about a quick connect to attach to my existing hydro pump.There would be alot of connect then disconnect after the log was loaded,but i can get these thing from old farm equipment or buy them cheap enough.        DanG i kinda skipped your post, didnt mean to ignore you,but this loader is my Dads and he doesnt part with anything, he will use it or let it sit til he can use it before he will sell it, but i will ask if he wants to sell it and how much.         Swede im not sure how you can get the drawing to pics unless you can scan them and save as a jpeg image or a bitmap file.Maybe with microsoft picture it publishing but not sure how you can transfer the files to the program,if anyone else can figure it out maybe they can explain it a little better.

[ADfields]

steveo_1 the power steering pump has the power but not enough holding tank for what you want.   You could add a 2nd tank in the return line but you have a pump so I would use ball valves in place of the quick connects you talk of.   Just add a "T" in the line behind the pump and a ball valve to the log loader and a 2nd to what you have it running now. ;)   You don't even need them in the return line, just a "T" and 2 ball valves and use the same controls you have now to run it.   The best way would be to add a spool valve behind the pump to run as many things as you want but also that would be the most money.
Andy

[Swede]

Fla._Deadheader

Now You are talkig about Good Old Times!  I´ve also built a lot of just what I could find around the corner.
 But I´ve also built macines for commercial use in 20 years and since -95  we have to:
1. make drawings,
2. make a written "risk analysis"
3. write instructions,  
4. put my name on a certificate telling that all this is done,
5. put a plate on the machine telling who has built it, the machines unique identity and a CE-signpost.

All these documents I have to save for 10 years. If an accident hapens I have to show documents telling the machine met the safety requirements when it left my wokshop.
Some companies demand all the drawings and documet on a CD when they get the machine.
All documens shall be in the local language, last week i sent a wagon with lifter to Holland (or do you say Nederlands?) Have you heard them talk? :O

A sawmill is a "dangerous machine" and I may not make the risk-analysis my self but have to call special people for that.
Any one who use a machine that not fulfil what i´ve written here can be judjed to fine or jail in max. 2 years.

 I´m not an engineer (my son is), finished scool after 9 years. The last three I was sleeping but in one way or an other I learned to read, write and the multiplication table.

So don´t blame me if i make drawings on the computer. When You know how to make it, it´s much easier than make them of aluminium stripes. *roar of laughter* I realy like that and have to try one day. Like your sawmill even more after been told how You made it. Don´t put a gauge on it even if You find one. That measures and angles tells me You have a very high pressure loading such big logs. If I was able to I should come and take a look to morrow but You know......whith out time and no rubber boots. (^__^)

Swede. *missing Good Old Days*

[music_boy]

     Been considering such a project myself, even for my little Hudson. Although my challenges are a little more cause I only have a 5.5 hp on mine. Obvious second motor is required. Not a big deal though.
     I see all the log lifters use twin rams. Used to see bulldozers loaders use twin rams. See alot of them use one center located ram. Not all that hydro "wise".(buit a log splitter from scratch :) 30 to 50 % more ram  size work physically?.( use half as much hydrolic hose) Wouldn't think stability would be a problem if built sturdy.
      What ya'lls thoughts on this? ;D
Rick

[Swede]

ADfields;

Power steering pump, Thats intresting!  Didn´t know they had the power.
I need a bigger pump for my saw mill.
What pressure can I get from a power steerig pump? What´s the volume/r ?

Swede.

[ADfields]

It's a gear pump and capable of something like 2800psi but at a low flow rate.   The biggest limiting factor is the small tank and the 2nd is the large pulleys they run on a odd shaft so it's hard to change out.   They are a good pump in an odd wrapper is all.
Andy

[Fla._Deadheader]

As always, placing cylinders and pumps and such out of harms way, is best. 1 cylinder might be used, but, keeping the load from tipping end to end would be a concern.

  Our pump is rated at 1500 pounds. We used Andy's idea about Ball Valves, to transfer pressure to a separate set of spools. Switch them back, and use the valve that is on the pump assy.

 Good Old Times, is sometimes, best old times, Swede. ;) ;)

[shopteacher]

 

When You know how to make it, it´s much easier than make them of aluminium stripes. *roar of laughter*

Gee Harold, Ya got em ragging on ya from across da pond. :D

[Fla._Deadheader]

Thats Ok, Teech. My loader works ;) ;) ;) :D :D :D :D

[jdunmyer]

Quote  
  I see all the log lifters use twin rams. Used to see bulldozers loaders use twin rams. See alot of them use one center located ram. Not all that hydro "wise".(buit a log splitter from scratch ) 30 to 50 % more ram  size work physically?.( use half as much hydrolic hose) Wouldn't think stability would be a problem if built sturdy
/quote

That's the problem. Using only a single cylinder would no doubt require more iron to carry the load.

On the subject of pumps: Some power steering pumps use an external reservoir, my '91 VW Jetta was like that. However, the flow rate (GPM) is low enough on them that I'd think you'd get so tired of waiting for it that you wouldn't CARE if it was easy.  ;D

If your mill has an open-center hydraulic system, you should be able to simply pipe your new 4-way valve in series with the existing valve(s) and use it. If it's closed center, pipe your new (closed center) valve into the pressure and return lines and go for it. A 4-way valve from Tractor Supply, Northern, or one of the surplus places shouldn't cost a lot more than a couple of ball valves. And the ball valves aren't rated for hydraulic pressures if they're the common hardware-store variety.

                            <<Jim>>

[Fla._Deadheader]

Good points, Jim. My ball valves ARE hyd. rated

[D._Frederick]

Figuring the hydraulics out for log loader requires a number of steps: first you need to figure the mechanical advantage out from the placement of the cylinder in the loader arms; then the  weight of the biggest log; from this the lbs of force to lift the log; then you need to deside what pressure you want the system to operate at; knowing the pressure, (take half the pressure if two cylinder are to be used) the diameter of the hydraulic cylinder can be determined; if you are not limited on power to drive the hydraulic pump, you figure the time you want to spend loading the log; from this you get the gallons per minute the pump needs to pump; then you belt the pump for the correct rpm to pump the gallons per minute you desided.
If you are limited on power, you work backwards: you know the operating pressure, and the horsepower to drive the pump: you look at the pump specifications and find the pump displacement that your power source will drive at the pressure  you want to operate at.
Hope this gives a general idea of how to design your log loader for the hydraulics.

[woodhaven]

FD,
Good to see this topic up again. I still haven't built mine yet that we talked about last year. I'm still cleaning up after that SOB of a storm. Sounds like you do things a little like me. I have drawn them up in Autocad several times. Then go in the shop and put it all together with scrap wood just to make sure it will work. Every time I find it is going to hit something that didn't show up in the drawing even though I can rotate the lift up and down on the drawing. I always try to make a real model of something before I start to build. It saves me money in the long run.

By the way you all were telling me to watch out for my insurance company adjuster after the storm. Well they did good. They did have to come out 3 times to survey the damage. When it was all said and done they paid me exactly what I wanted. If I could a way to buy TIME I could get some of this crap done. I have the money and no time. Life is a Beach.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Right on, Richard ;) ;). Saves a BUNCH of welding, grinding, welding.

  I'm kinda like the Japs, I can copy most anything. The only way I save, is to have plenty of used supplies laying around. Give me one decent picture and stand back. :D :D

  Wish I had more time to help some of the guys with the how-to's. Got to start hitting the River next week. Gonna be some lonnnnng hours and sore muscles, ahead : : ;D

  Must have been a real bad storm, or ya been goofin off over the Winter ;D ;D :D :D