Pine?

[lowpolyjoe]

Anyone know what this is?    It's thin and a bit sick looking.  It spent most if its days in the shade until recently. It has unique cones.  I was wondering what it is and how hardy it is if I try to plant some from seeds. 








Thanks a lot
Joe

[DanG]

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say Tamarack.

[Texas Ranger]

What DanG said, t'ain't pine.

[Dodgy Loner]

It's actually a true cedar - either Cedar-of-Lebanon or deodar cedar. Hard to tell the two apart sometimes. Not a native species, though.

[Ianab]

Certainly looks like the Deodar cedar I have in the back garden. Common ornamental park/garden tree here in NZ.

They are supposed to grow in Climate Zone 7 or warmer. Much colder than that and the winters will kill them. I believe NJ is generally Zone 7? That one has obviously survived, so probably worth trying to grow some more.

They make good Christmas trees too.

Ian

[lowpolyjoe]

Thanks for the suggestsions.  I did some looking around online at some pics and i think it seems to match up with cedar photos the closest.

Even though this particular tree is not in great shape, i like the look of it.  I would like to plant more but it seems we're right on the edge of the zone-7 area and a cold winter might kill any new plants.  I read that pollen is is shed from male cones in the fall and the female cones are just starting to open now and drop seeds...  I guess i would have had to save some male cones from earlier in the year to fertilze the seeds i can get later in the year?  Considering how tight the female cones start off in the fall, i can't imagine any pollen gets to the seeds until they fall to the ground?   i don't know too much about plants so maybe i'm wrong abotu the whole process... is there a flower that gets fertilized before the seeds are even created?

I'll probably try starting a few seeds over the winter but fear they will not germinate.  Next year i'll be on the lookout for the male cones earlier in the fall and then dim the lights later in the year and see if i can make some magic happen   :D

Any guidance in how to start off some seedlings would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe

[Ianab]

Seeds on conifers like that will be fertilised when the trees are dropping pollen. The female cones will just be small buds at that time, but capture the pollen, and so form the seeds as they grow. So no worries there, the seed you collect should be fertile.

I'm not sure on the best way to propagate those, but I'm sure there is info around. They are a common ornamental, so it can't be too hard.

As for getting the seedlings established, I would suggest a "nurse crop". This is some fast growing disposable plants that will shelter the seedling, but not totally shade and smother it.  This protects it from frost, wind etc that might kill it off.

As you say this tree was growing in a shaded spot, this is probably what accidentally happened with it already. But you can prune and remove the "nurse" plants as the tree grows, and so allow it to grow normally. Once it gets to be a few years old it's above the worst of the frost and ice, and can probably survive OK.

Ian

[lowpolyjoe]

Great info - thanks Ian!

I've never heard of a nurse crop but i'll look into it. 

I'll try to get the seedlings started indoors over the winter.  I have some growlites.  If i get anything going maybe i'll move it to the deck in the spring, then maybe a year or two later put it in the woods.  Anything small gets eaten by my deer (not sure if they eat needles tho).   

I have two 2-year old sapplings i've been bringing along since they were a few inches long (gift from a friend who belongs to Arbor Society).  They're out on the deck and i'm terrified of putting them in the yard and having them get eaten  :D   I might have to post pics of them too because i'm not sure what they are or how big they are likely to get.

Thanks for all the help
Joe

[Ianab]

Here is a write up about Nurse Crops that's probably relevant to what you are trying to do. Using Aspen to shelter conifers.

http://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_rm/rm_gtr119/rm_gtr119_181_184.pdf

Many of the native trees here simply will not grow in any sort of exposed situation, only the shelter of an already established forest. Chicken and situation if you are trying to re-establish native forest on clear land. So a temporary planting of Tree Lucerne or natural regrowth of small hardy trees like Manuka are used to shelter the larger forest trees like Rimu or Kauri for a few years. Even a weed like gorse will do the trick.

Anyway that pdf will give you an idea of how the strategy works.

Ian

[lowpolyjoe]

Hey again...

I'm curious about starting the seeds from these cones.  I thought i might get them sprouting indoors over the winter but no luck so far.

I wrapped them in a damp paper towel, put them in a plastic bag to hold the moisture, and sat them near a strong light and heat source (a reptile heat lamp and light).   I let them sit for a few weeks but not a one started to germinate.  Is this approach valid?  Could these seeds just be unfertilized?  I'm not clear if the seeds still form even if fertilization doesn't take place in a given cone.  All these seeds were from a single cone.  I have seeds from another cone sitting in a shallow puddle of water under the same heat/light setup but i just started that a few days ago (no luck yet there either).



Thanks a lot,
Joe

[WDH]

Many species have to undergo a "cold sum" where the temperature drops below a certain level for a given amount of time for the seeds to "stratify".  Not at all sure about your species of cedar.  Many seeds do well between layers of damp paper towel and stored in the back of a refrigerator for 6 - 8 weeks.

[lowpolyjoe]

Intesting... i'll give the refridgerator treatment a try.

Thanks for the info