What do you think of this?

[Ron Scott]

A lose of public land acres treated by timber harvesting and a loss of non-priced public benefits associated with the timber management practice. When the timber prices increase, there will be no "below-cost" timber sale. The timber values will then exceed any harvest and road costs.

The Allegheny National Forest there in PA was not a below cost timber sales National Forest. It was the highest valued forest in the east with its black cherry, but now environmentalists still have its timber harvesting pretty well stopped.

When I worked there we sold many timber sales for over $1,000,000 on the stump.

[Forester Frank]

Who started this thread? It has turned out to be a good discussion item. Lots of good information being exchanged.

Wood cost is one item that our company puts under a microscope, so you are scaring me Ron, by saying that G-P will just buck up on stumpage prices. The bidding process should be reserved for those willing to manage the forest, not preserve it. I am just in favor of allowing everyone into the arena. Unfortunately, allowing all means allowing those that have intentions of doing nothing. After days of discussion and though my position is to keep them out of the process.

[Ron Wenrich]

The latest reports on the Allegheny NF show that timber sales have been reduced to 25% of what they used to be.  It also shows that federal appeals have dropped off to zero since 1997.  The Indiana bat appeals were dismissed, if I recall.

There is still 30 MMbf under contract for harvest.  (2000 statistics).

[Ron Scott]

The Allegheny National Forest use to be the "Busiest Little Forest" that I've ever been on with its hight quality black cherry management, oil & gas production, heavy recreation, both motorized and non-motorized, excellent hunting & fishing etc.

[Don P]

As an outsiders point of view,
Have they not purchased a rotation?
Is this a bad thing?
As good citizens are they not charged with maintaining their purchase...and if it's part of my stock, being liable for any losses or harm?

[L. Wakefield]

   OK, so that brings up a point. One of the old Biblical principles of agriculture was letting the fields lie fallow for (I think it was) 1 year in 7. Is there any analogous feature of benefit for forest or woodland management? (Granted that the rotation would be MUCH longer)- but eg the (tropical) rainforest is so slain by intensive harvesting that one could see a long fallow period being of benefit there- maybe every other cycle, whatever you defined as a cycle. Here in temperate/boreal regions, what?   :P  lw

[L. Wakefield]

   And- I digress on my digression- I feel a book-buying frenzy coming on here...one of my recent valuable trips to U Conn. I invested in some of the basic books on ag mgt- feeds and forages, livestock mgt etc. Could y'all suggest some good basic texts on forestry and woodland management?
 
   There is a 1963 text by Peter Farb called 'Face of North America' which has a section on forests- and I see in his credits in the beginning that he had also done a text simoply entitled 'Forests'. (I doubt it's in print.)

   That's really all I have in my personal library at the moment, but I could stand to invest a c-note or 2 in a few texts of lasting and practical value.    :P ( I am so glad you took the playboy bunny off the book emoticon- hate to give you the wrong idea about my wildlife studies here..)   lw

[Ron Scott]

Try,
Woodland Stewardship, A Practical Guide For Midwestern Landowners

By: Melvin J. Baughman, Alvin A. Alm,
A. Scott Reed, Thomas G. Eiber, and Charles R. Blinn

It is availablle from the Minnesota Extension Service, Distribution Center; University of Minnesota; 20 Coffey Hall; St. Paul, Minnesota 55108 ; telephone # (612) 625-8173
They are also on the internet.

If you are interested in Wildlife Management, a good book is:
Northwoods Wildlife; A Watcher;s Guide to Habitats

By:Janine M. Benyus

It is available form the Lake States Interpretive Association
and is published by; NorthWord Press, Inc. Box 1360; Minocqua, Wisconsin; call 1-800-336-5666

Also try Amazon .com

There are many such books, but these are a couple good ones for the layperson to start with.

[Tom]

Lw.

It's not the "Institutional" thing to do but I have learned great gobs by visiting our regional dept. of forestry office.  The Regional Forester and I have become friends over the years and I speak freely with him, the rangers and the Urban Forester.  Sometimes I just stop for a cup of coffee (not as often as I should) and visit for a half hour or hour with whomever will put up with me.  I have gotten tips on good books, seminars, local meetings and invitations to watch tree planting, herbaciding, harvesting and timber prep. on interesting pieces of land in the area. It is not only educational but provides an avenue to meet other timber growers.

[Bud Man]

Lw  -Search web sites for books published by:Chelsea Green Publishers  and also  Dover Publishing -- That should be interesting .  Also Textbook in Dendrology  By  Harlow and Harrah -- Published by McGraw-Hill  These publishers will have available text in subjects of interest and are moderately priced and range  from the novice to the technical limits you set.    Good Reading

[L. Wakefield]

   Excellent! It's a long-term goal, but why not? Thank you for the references!   :P :P  lw