Felling EAB Killed Ash

[lxskllr]

How deep are you guys putting your face in?

I shoot for around 75% of the diameter.
Alan

No one else commented on this, so at the risk of looking stupid, missing some kind of sarcasm, or simply misunderstanding; 75%?!  Seems to me it would topple before finishing the face cut. Is 75% the remainder perhaps?

[Old Greenhorn]

@Old Greenhorn - next time you are cutting on a weekend, I'd love to tag along, lend a hand and try and learn a few things.  Let me know.  :new_year:

Well,, why don't we do some of your trees and kill 2 birds with one cut? (As soon as i feel human again. I have barely left the couch in 72 hours and I am miserable, stiff, and weak.)

[Old Greenhorn]

No one else commented on this, so at the risk of looking stupid, missing some kind of sarcasm, or simply misunderstanding; 75%?!  Seems to me it would topple before finishing the face cut. Is 75% the remainder perhaps?

You are not stupid. What the poster meant was "The width of the face cut would be 75% of the tree diameter" so a 12 inch diameter tree would have a face cut the is 9" wide.  I usually shhot for around 80% but it is such a small difference, who cares UNLESS there are issues with the tree like a rot hole, then you need to avoid working in that section and make sure you have good wood on both sides of the face. Does that make sense?

[Skeans1]

How deep are you guys putting your face in?

I shoot for around 75% of the diameter.
Alan

No one else commented on this, so at the risk of looking stupid, missing some kind of sarcasm, or simply misunderstanding; 75%?!  Seems to me it would topple before finishing the face cut. Is 75% the remainder perhaps?

I'll do 1/2 to just shy of 2/3's depending on the situation of what's there, I've had rotten stuff crumble well putting a face in or put in a deep and use a pusher with no back cut to speak of.

[lxskllr]

 Does that make sense?

Yea, it does. I don't typically think in terms of wood left on the sides, so that didn't occur to me. I think in terms of depth, so assuming a perfect cylinder, 50% depth would equal 100% of the face side to side.

[mike_belben]

Its kinda like trying to figure a 4% grade from a 12%

All i know is the 12% is really dang steep.

[lxskllr]

I used to live by the water, and to get into town, you had to go down a 12% grade. Cops like to sit in the parking lots to make easy money.

I once coasted ~4 2.3 miles when I ran out of gas coming off the off ramp from the highway. It was level for awhile, then slightly downhill, then you hit the 12% grade. At the bottom, there was a "ramp" that made a 90° turn, then went up an ~8% grade, then back down at 4% to the 7-11. I managed to make the whole thing  :^D  The turn at the bottom was sketchy. Needed to be slow enough to make the turn, but fast enough to make it over the next hill. That was one of my great achievements in life  :^D

edit:
had a bit of memory inflation. Looked the distance up, and it was half of what I remembered.

[Mad Professor]

Lots of good reading on this thread.

I started a similar one a little while back.   I've got lots of EAB killed ash and many are just too scary to try to drop.  Tops rotted and seldom a clear path to do the fall.  Some have started to fall and are hungup.  I'm hoping to get some of these down using rope/cable and a snatch block so I can pull from a safe location and well away.  I don't have any heavy equipment available and it would not be worth hiring someone to come in to drop firewood.

I think I will let nature take it's course on many.  It's not worth getting killed for firewood.

If I get my camera working I'll get some pictures of the bad and the ugly ones.

I've got to make it a point to mark the newly effected ash when foliage is still out.  Then I can take them down before they get rotten, in fall/winter when I have a leafless canopy.

I hate to waste all this ash as it's clear and straight and I can get some nice sawlogs out of them before they rot. Maybe put enough beams up for a small timber frame project.

[David-L]

I live in central Mass and EAB has been here awhile. I have become quite experienced in taking these dead Ash trees down on a somewhat daily basis in the stand I am logging.. Where I work in the woods there is no bucket truck option. #1 Never, reiterate, NEVER bang wedges into these dead ash, #2 most are still solid if only dead for a few years, Make your face cut, start your back cut and place a wedge to hold, Not bang a wedge in. If it has a lean then have your exit route planned and the minute you see movement be gone. If no lean set up a bull rope and a come along or some devise ( I use my skidder arch while in a enclosed cab ) to pull this tree over after you have performed #2. The smaller wood in the crown of these dead ashes is just that smaller and more fragile than the butt of the tree and any vibration can send limbs to the ground. Be safe and wear your PPE.

[Cutting Edge]

How deep are you guys putting your face in?

I shoot for around 75% of the diameter.
Alan

No one else commented on this, so at the risk of looking stupid, missing some kind of sarcasm, or simply misunderstanding; 75%?!  Seems to me it would topple before finishing the face cut. Is 75% the remainder perhaps?

I'll do 1/2 to just shy of 2/3's depending on the situation of what's there, I've had rotten stuff crumble well putting a face in or put in a deep and use a pusher with no back cut to speak of.

I don't believe I've ever went past 50%, maybe 60%.  Usually 1/3 -1/2 has been sufficient.  All depends on direction of fall, condition of wood, the dangers above, etc. 

My main concern is just getting it down, safely.  A close second is residual stand damage.

[Old Greenhorn]

I think I will let nature take it's course on many.  It's not worth getting killed for firewood.

I've got to make it a point to mark the newly effected ash when foliage is still out.  Then I can take them down before they get rotten, in fall/winter when I have a leafless canopy.

I hate to waste all this ash as it's clear and straight and I can get some nice sawlogs out of them before they rot. Maybe put enough beams up for a small timber frame project.

Your post reminded of a miserable set I took down last March. I am not ashamed to admit it took me 3 weeks to get it on the ground. I had 2 other loggers who are much better than me come in and quote just dropping the trees. Both took a pass unless they could bring in an excavator. I had been looking at this mess since hurricane Irene (2012?) and it was making me nuts, 3 maples and an ash all hooked in a near prefect teepee. I would look at it for a while, then go and cut a little and things would move wrong and I would quit and watch. Then try something different the next day. Eventually I had 2 come-a-longs, and 2 sets of block and tackle trying to stress it enough make make something break. I made a lot of mistakes, but never got in trouble because I was in no hurry. All these trees were about 80' tall and the biggest was 28" DBH. I had been waiting a long time for nature to take it's course to no avail. You would think that when I finally got these on the ground it would have been a heck of a boom, but no, they dropped in slow motion as I relieved the stress in each stalk in turn.


 
You might notice that the crotch of the tree coming from the left is locked onto the next tree below it, which meant neither I nor mother nature could roll that tree off. When things started moving, I did manage to release one tree which popped back up. I left it hoping it would survive but after this summer season it is not looking too good. I tried milling some of these logs last week, but there is so much stress in them it hardly seems worth it. To be sure, this was a bit complicated and I would never have taken this as a paying job, because I didn't know if I could actually get them on the ground. I was prepared to quit at any point (sort of). It taught me a LOT and I am a much safer faller now.  I would not suggest 'trying this at home'.

[Skeans1]

I think I will let nature take it's course on many.  It's not worth getting killed for firewood.

I've got to make it a point to mark the newly effected ash when foliage is still out.  Then I can take them down before they get rotten, in fall/winter when I have a leafless canopy.

I hate to waste all this ash as it's clear and straight and I can get some nice sawlogs out of them before they rot. Maybe put enough beams up for a small timber frame project.

Your post reminded of a miserable set I took down last March. I am not ashamed to admit it took me 3 weeks to get it on the ground. I had 2 other loggers who are much better than me come in and quote just dropping the trees. Both took a pass unless they could bring in an excavator. I had been looking at this mess since hurricane Irene (2012?) and it was making me nuts, 3 maples and an ash all hooked in a near prefect teepee. I would look at it for a while, then go and cut a little and things would move wrong and I would quit and watch. Then try something different the next day. Eventually I had 2 come-a-longs, and 2 sets of block and tackle trying to stress it enough make make something break. I made a lot of mistakes, but never got in trouble because I was in no hurry. All these trees were about 80' tall and the biggest was 28" DBH. I had been waiting a long time for nature to take it's course to no avail. You would think that when I finally got these on the ground it would have been a heck of a boom, but no, they dropped in slow motion as I relieved the stress in each stalk in turn.


 
You might notice that the crotch of the tree coming from the left is locked onto the next tree below it, which meant neither I nor mother nature could roll that tree off. When things started moving, I did manage to release one tree which popped back up. I left it hoping it would survive but after this summer season it is not looking too good. I tried milling some of these logs last week, but there is so much stress in them it hardly seems worth it. To be sure, this was a bit complicated and I would never have taken this as a paying job, because I didn't know if I could actually get them on the ground. I was prepared to quit at any point (sort of). It taught me a LOT and I am a much safer faller now.  I would not suggest 'trying this at home'.

I can think of something safer, faster, and easier look for a larger heavier tree to bring across the mess at 90 degrees that'll normally unlock a domino effect and down they all go.

[Old Greenhorn]

I can think of something safer, faster, and easier look for a larger heavier tree to bring across the mess at 90 degrees that'll normally unlock a domino effect and down they all go.

Certainly that is a good idea, and it was one of the dozen or so options I considered, then passed on, for 3 reasons: A) All these trees were live and any tree I dropped on them would have to break something in order to change the balance on the mechanical lock these trees had with each other. 2) The likely hood of causing a break in the right location was pretty small. C) The highest probably with such a plan was that I would have yet another tree involved in the mess, and 4) There was no tree bigger in the area that would have had a chance of doing the job. Also, I don't like to take any more than I have to and select trees very carefully. I know it is impossible to see from a single photo what I was dealing with, and your idea is of course a good one and a reliable method, it just would not work in this case, or at least it had a low chance of being successful. At one point I had about 400' of ropes, cables, and chains involved in direct downward pressure on the mass after I had put weakening cuts in two of the 3 main trees (the 3rd was just too dangerous to cut, I would be right under the whole mess). Each morning and afternoon I would check the lines and add more tension, thinking that eventually gravity, pressure, and wind would help get it down. It worked for a few days as I gained a few inches or more each time I tightened them, but then progress stopped. At that point I increased the weakening cuts and had the big one completely cut from the stump and still they did not go. It just took time and patience. Everybody has a different approach, different skills, and different equipment. I just used what I had. Particularly my sense of self preservation.  I will be honest and say If I were doing the same trees today my approach would likely be different. I have learned a lot since that job and my skills are much higher. That job actually taught me a lot about what I didn't know so I set about working on fixing the defect in my knowledge. That 3 week job would probably take me 4 hours now........ or perhaps not.

[Mad Professor]

I can think of something safer, faster, and easier look for a larger heavier tree to bring across the mess at 90 degrees that'll normally unlock a domino effect and down they all go.

Not an option on most.  Canopy is pretty full and the better trees that could be pushers, are mostly hard maples I want to save as shelterwood or for sugarbush.  Some might have some soft maples close by but it's still a question of a path through the canopy

[Southside]

I get wanting to save keepers, I am the same way with my White Oak, but it's hard to make sugar from the great beyond. 

[Ed]

Felled 2 ash last weekend, both nice sticks, 20" dbh.

First one went over perfect with a tap on the wedge.

Second one......sat over sideways before I had the back cut done. Luckily my saw was out far enough to get the powerhead off. It got caught in a small leaner cherry.

Next morning it had pushed the cherry over enough to hit a 45 deg angle. I lifted it with the tractor, got my bar & chain back then pulled down.

Ed