General Sawing tips for portable sawyers

[WV Sawmiller]

Chuck,

   Do you off load from either the front or rear vs middle of the mill? Don't the logs on the stack waiting to be sawed present a problem for your helper(s)?

   For me the customer himself or one helper is typically all I normally have on hand so if he is tied up moving another log into place, rather than wait on him (I never wait - am always doing something) I typically have to toss a slab or go stack a board or two and that would be a long way for me to walk.

   I guess a lot of it gets back to Peter's point about making sure the customer is properly set up before starting and I have been too lenient in some cases.

[Magicman]

"Always" and "Never" are not a part of my setups regarding where the lumber and slabs go.  My preference is for the slabs to go over the rail and the lumber to be stacked at the back end of the sawmill such as was done with my today's sawing. 

This is inside of a horse lot and it's wet so the sawdust is being scattered.  The slabs are being stacked in the top right of the picture.

Now I do "always" have customer furnished help and I "never" work alone.  I do like to have the work area open with no chance of confinement or being boxed in.  I have no problem with the lumber being loaded onto a trailer and actually that is what happens with a majority of what I saw because the sawing site is seldom where the lumber will be stacked/dried/used.

[Peter Drouin]

Mr White, I don't know if you worked alone or not, Just asking is all. 

I will say If you have or want tail gunners good. Have them put the lumber and slabs where ever they want it.
When I was on the road I worked alone 90% of the time. When I had help most times it was good. Bad thing is the next day they might not show, and I have to work in a mess, because the job was setup with help, now I'm alone again. :

The last job I went to I went to look at for free, told the guy to set the logs up hill to where the mill is going to be. I was standing where I wanted the logs.
He called, all set to go, packed up and went the 50miles to the job.
When I got there the logs where in the place I wanted the mill, 
I was so mad. I ask why, He said well, my friend had the tractor and thought the logs would be better there. Ya down hill so the logs would role away from him up to the trees. 
I told him to call me when he gets them moved. He never called back. 
The next day A&P Sawmill opened.
Now I have some of the same customers call. Can I bring the logs over for you to cut for me?
YES you can!!! I ask do you need a truck to pick them up. Some say yes, I send a log truck, some truck their logs. They pay for the truck, Pay me the same or more from when I was on the road. 
I have a 45' door 200'+ of roof and a Cat.
Happy days, I should have did this years ago.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Except for the one case I mentioned earlier I always have a customer or his helper there on the job. In all honesty I do way more than I should but I enjoy helping and most of the customers are very friendly, appreciative and fun to work with.

   I did have one job similar to to the case you mention where I did a site visit. Was a very narrow, steep, back yard site. All white pine cut from a windbreak between him and his neighbor. All 8' long. All 4/4 lumber. His 2 grown sons were to be my helpers. I showed him where I needed the logs. He said his sons would move them there with a cant hook. I called the night before scheduled and he said all was ready. When I got there nothing had changed - I should have left then but the guy was a disabled vet and I modified my set up so I could reach about 60% of the logs by rolling them downhill. The sons were nice enough but total city slickers and would be working against themselves with their cant hooks. I even loaned them my 1/4" cable and snatch block and showed them how to move logs with it. I had them use their SUV as I did draw the line on using my truck and extra risk to tear up something doing them a favor. Finished and got out just ahead of rain and snow which would have trapped me in there. I'd bet the remaining logs are still there scattered in his back yard. It was only about 15 miles away, turned out to be profitable and I enjoyed working with the young men but I doubt I will ever do that again. I should probably have done like you did and the client had not been a DV I doubt I would. The bad thing is he probably never knew or appreciated the the extra effort.

[starmac]

Well you guys have sawn a lot more than I, but I figure at least half of what I have done I did alone and took the slabs and lumber off the idle side, flitches are pushed towards the loader arms. What I like to do is park the forklift on the idle side and lay the lumber across the forks, lowering them as needed. Working with even a makeshift log deck, I can do several logs before cranking the forklift and moving the lumber, and cleaning up the slabs. It has worked for me so far, if I was to go a serious production route, I would be changeing up some things, and including a dragback and some sort of automated chain and tables.

[Crossroads]

I had a customer roll the logs down hill from the set up point. They were all big cotton wood and soaking wet. Ended up quartering one log. Broke a peeve and my winch, absolutely worked me tail off and was discusted with myself for not driving away. Although, that was the job that really got the ball rolling to buy a new mill even though things wouldn't have been any better with the new mill the way the logs were staged. 

MM, I wish I had read your post a day sooner. I just ordered a board return:(. 

[starmac]

The only real portable work I have done was either trading for logs, or sawing for a friend, however even if just helping a friend, even though my mill is hydraulic, if the logs were staged to where they had to be rolled up hill, I would not even unhook. 

[tawilson]

MM, I wish I had read your post a day sooner. I just ordered a board return:(.
.

You might like the board return. I set up a roller table and drag my slabs back, grab them as soon as they are in reach to guide them on to the table then give them a shove. Then scoop them up with the forks when I need to stack the lumber or get some logs. Course not I seldom need to max things out like MM does. Maybe in a few years.

[Chuck White]

For my typical setup, the slab is off-loaded from one end on the opposite side of the mill and the lumber is off-loaded from the other end!

Typically, there are no issues with setup, once in a while some of the logs will require turning to ensure that they will line up on the loading arms!

I have the flitches on the loading arms until the cant is small enough for the edging to be done, then the loading arms go down and the off-bearer will roll another log onto the loading arms while the cant is being finished up!

I always (except for once on a small job) have an off-bearer, at least one!

[WDH]

I am stationary, but when I drag a board back after sawing, it comes off the mill onto a roller table.  There is a gap between the roller table and the mill so that I can walk between them.  I take the board, walk two steps, and sticker it on the pallet.  That way I touch the board one time and it is nicely stickered, one and done.  I do not touch that board again until after kiln drying when the board is getting planed.  The drag back makes it very easy. 

[YellowHammer]

Are you offloading off the side of the roller table onto the stack, or off the end of the roller table onto the stack?  How are you keeping the stickers from sliding?  

I'm always looking for a better way especially with the bigger slabs.  I was even thinking if building a side ramp off the out feed roller table to slide heavy slabs off the side and onto the stickered stack.

[WV Sawmiller]

   That reminds me - when stickering, I place the stickers then try to place the first board very straight on one edge of the stack then put the next boards on it, slide them into place then jockey/flip or roll them over into until I have a complete row then repeat. Sliding on the board keeps me from having to walk as far and helps keep the stckers from moving

[Percy]

This is my favorite thread right now......lots of common sense happenin....and while some do it one way, and others do it another way, an old saying I heard from a really old coffgin dodger comes to mind. It goes..."The mind is a parachute.......it works best when open."  

Keep em comming ;D ;D

[WV Sawmiller]

  I was scanning this from the start and opened the thread DDW_OR suggested. Useful sawmill mods in Sawmills and Milling . It is a very old thread and had seen parts of it before but started at the beginning and there are a whole list of tips from Mr. Tom that should be read by everyone. Not all are mods to the mill. Some are simple things like putting RV levels on the mill or placing an old round hubcap under the front landing gear if you need to pull or slide the mill forward a little.

   I am going to go back and read that thread from the start too. Thanks DDW.

[DDW_OR]

I always try to help.

Sawdust blower on a bandmill in Sawmills and Milling

tk add ons in Sawmills and Milling

[Crossroads]

I'll put the board return on and give it a whirl, but I'm about 95% mobile and the customer is responsible for off bearing. I don't have a chair though, so maybe? 

That reminds me, if your ordering a mill and think you want an accessory. It is cheaper to have it installed at the factory than it is to install it yourself. Board return:$500 installed at the factory. $650 to drive 4 hours round trip to pick it up and install it yourself. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   Remembered another tip this afternoon while moving small to medium logs by hand in the yard. Instead of going to get my pivot stick I just grabbed a cut-off piece of a log and used it to chock the end I wanted to remain stationary then I rotated it with my cant hook on the opposite end till it was pointed where I wanted it. Just one end moves when the other is chocked when you rotate with your hook.

   This is fast and easy to do with 2 people with 2 cant hooks or peavys. Just use one hook to chock the stationary end then roll the other one. Don't hook the log with the stationary end or you will be fighting against each other. Just hold the handle/head under the log to keep that end from moving. A peavy is actually better than an cant hook for this. If the log is big it is easier to use the pivot stick but chocking one end works for small stock.

[Magicman]

MM, I wish I had read your post a day sooner. I just ordered a board return

No way did I intend to influence you or anyone regarding whether to buy/use any option.  I was stating what I do but it fits my sawing market.  I am 100% portable and am quite comfortable with my setup which does not include the board dragback and the other associated equipment such as roller tables. etc.  It also keeps all of the work operation in front of me and in my view so that I can instantly react to any situation, safety or otherwise.

[Crossroads]

MM, I wish I had read your post a day sooner. I just ordered a board return

No way did I intend to influence you or anyone regarding whether to buy/use any option.  I was stating what I do but it fits my sawing market.  I am 100% portable and am quite comfortable with my setup which does not include the board dragback and the other associated equipment such as roller tables. etc.  It also keeps all of the work operation in front of me and in my view so that I can instantly react to any situation, safety or otherwise.

No worries, I've been on the fence about adding one. Had I seen your post sooner, I probably would have stayed on the fence a while longer. I have a feeling you have an influence on a lot of folks. That's not a bad thing. 

[WDH]

Are you offloading off the side of the roller table onto the stack, or off the end of the roller table onto the stack? 

Off to the side.  Catty corner behind me where I stand when I am beginning a cut with the sawmill.  That way, when I am cutting 9/4 slabs, I drag back the slab until it begins to slide on the roller table.  The pallet for stickering is beside the roller table with just enough space for me to walk between.  I have the pallet raised up to the level of the roller table using the tractor forks.  That way, I can take one end of the heavy slab and slide that end over onto the pallet, then go to the other end and slide it on.  That way I do not have to lift the slab except for one end at a time.  Once the first slab is on a layer, the next slab is slid onto the first one, then slid over into its final resting place.  As the stack grows, I lower the pallet to make it easy to stack the slabs, keeping every thing about waist level.  The gap between the mill and the roller table allows me a place to stand to take the first end of the slab and slide it onto the stickers.
Customsawyer says that you should never pick up both ends of a board at the same time if you can avoid it.  He avoids it by making me do it when it has to be done ;D.

[YellowHammer]

Nice, I normally dead stack the slabs off the mill, with the dragback. However, lately I've been sawing so many slabs that we can't keep up with the sticking.  We even hired a guy and he can't keep up.  So I'm looking for an easier way.  I will try this.
Thanks

[E-Tex]

WDH & YH, at what point do you spray with bora-care?

[WV Sawmiller]

  One area we have not discussed much is off set ups. I had a job cutting bridge timbers for a near neighbor. The logs were down a narrow dirt road with a house at the end. There was not a good spot to turn around with the mill connected and the widest spot to saw was a bend in the road. When I got to the bend I disconnected the mill, drove up the road a bit, turned my truck around, and squeezed between the mill and the side of the mountain on the way back so my truck was headed out. The customers helpers and I spun the mill around so the arms were facing the logs and we sawed them there. When finished I backed up, hooked up and went home.

  Keep in mind in travel mode the mill is well balanced you can move it small distances by hand especially if you have good helper. I use an ATV all the time here at home to move my mill. ATVs, UTVs, tractors, etc. can be used to move the mill at the site to spots where you have have trouble driving your truck in. Someone, I think it may have been the MagicMan, mentioned a customer towing his mill with a bulldozer where it was too wet to get a truck in. Just remember, if you can't tow it in there is a good chance you can't tow it out so be clear ahead of time how you will leave when done.

  Mobile sawing means being extremely flexible and you can expect to have to be creative in your set up sometimes.

[YellowHammer]

WDH & YH, at what point do you spray with bora-care?

In this day and age of product liability, I've virtually done away with adding any chemicals to our wood.  I get asked by my customers about it surprisingly frequently, so we have adjusted.  No chemicals or additives on our product.  People really care about that.  I have found the best way to prevent insects is very fresh logs, very little log inventory, short stockpile time in the log yard, and rapid product processing.  I also slab off any bug infected wood at the sawmill.  I will just keep cutting until there are no signs of insects.
I have lost a tremendous amount of wood and money to bugs and I try to deal with it extremely aggressivly.  I won't sell a board with a bug hole in it, unless it is normal for that wood, such as wormy maple.  Otherwise, worm hole wood goes into the burn pile.    

The exception are live edge slabs.  Bark and wood equals bugs.  So I segregate our slabs form our other wood during the initial air drying period.  Then we run them through the kilns.p.  If slabs are spalted, they'll have bugs, and that natural for those pieces.  Most spalted wood is maple or fast drying species, so I will push the drying cycle.  

It's also reasonably important to be able to recognize different insects and  their life cycle.  Ambrosia beetles are very predictable and I can work with them.  Powder post beetles are intolerable, and are excised immediatly.  Once wood is processed, it must be stored indoors or it will be attacked by all manner of critter.  

[Magicman]

Mobile sawing means being extremely flexible and you can expect to have to be creative in your set up sometimes.

Yes, I have towed the sawmill down a narrow woods road where there was absolutely no way to turn the truck and sawmill around.  Once I also encountered a serious switchback that would be impossible to manage with the sawmill attached to the truck.  In both instances I unhooked the sawmill, managed the truck, turned the sawmill by hand, and then proceeded.



Here is the instance where the truck could not pull the sawmill up the freshly built muddy road.



The dozer pulled the sawmill to the log site.



And parked it. 



Same customer as above but in a different location.  In this instance there was nowhere to set the sawmill up for sawing the logs.



The customer grubbed out a site.



I parked the sawmill.



And the sawing job was a success.  Sure, it took an hour for the customer to clear out and level the sawing site but I ended up sawing three different times and over 6Mbf for him.  Worth the effort?  In my book, Yes.