Cat's Claw sharpener

[Rick-Wi]

Well the sharpener is up and running, No directions with it, but wasn't that hard to fiqure out. Some light tip burning, and that should take care of itself in some minor adjustings.

I don't realy care for the setter though. Slow and only sets one side then you have to flip the blade inside out to do the other side. I have a old setter here with double set for band blades. I will see if I can modify it to work on these blades. Electric, auto indexing, and sets both teeth at the same time.

Rick-Wi

[Tom]

Rick,
What seems slow is better called accuracy.  I have woodmizers' setters and prefer them over those type that set both side at once because I can check the accuracy of the set of each tooth with the guage.  While setters that set both directions at once may be faster, they don't pay attention to the difference in memory the blade has from tooth to tooth.

If you are interested in only breaking the log down then it is not so critical.  If you are creating boards for those in the public who have been exposed to manufacturers propaganda,  then they may think the mill should produce a better finished board.

Don't fall into that trap of many, who think speed is of the essence.  When it comes to setting and sharpening blades, they are either right or wrong and patience is definitely a virtue.

Did Cook Contact you, or are you running blind?

[Rick-Wi]

Tom, No Cook's hasn't contacted me yet.
 But I have been sharpening for several years. Including Carbide. I have a small sharpening shop in the barn. Mostly Belsaw but some others too. So when you been dressing wheels for years, it isn't hard to figure out what the wheel has to do to get the band sharp.
  I could see some things in the Cat's Claw that if I was in design I would change. One would be a cam operating the Vice, and not relying on friction to hold in place. Another is and correct me if wrong, but the hook angle is fixed. It would be an easy thing to be able to adjust the hook. But overall it works good. More compact then my stand-all.
  Not saying anything bad about your message, just saying it is slow. I also know how important it is to have the set right. If set is wrong then some teeth are doing all the work, dull faster and give rough cuts. I have also heard of some that set tooth first and then sharpen. Reasoning being that the sharpener will sharpen each tooth to the same height.

Heck, this might turn into a good topic?

Rick-Wi

[Tom]

I'm glad you have the experience and eye for detail.  I make assumptions sometimes when I haven't all the facts that tends to embarass me but I'm a big boy and can take it.

Wood Mizers sharpener has a cam that shuts the vice.  I don't know how Cook's does it but Tim's pretty sharp and wouldn't do it Half A-- I don't think.  I like the idea of a cam also.

Most of those sharpeners adjust hook by moving the stone/motor assembly.  The last ads I saw for Cook said that they were belt driven now.  Maybe it is even easier to move just the stone.

I set then sharpen.

I have a note in the knowledge base as to why(I think) but basically it's because Wood Mizer taught me to do it that way years ago.  It also saves me time.  If I sharpen and then set, I have to clean the blade of burrs.  I would rather sharpen 3 or 4 blades and go in to the house and get some sleep.  :D

I use this procedure to keep from getting into trouble. (every blade) Basically I saw softwoods but this configuration has done me good in what hardwoods I cut too.

Remove from mill:  run water hard to clean blade first
Turn it inside out:  keeps me from puttin it back on.(put it on truck)
Set: I shoot for 21 thou. .
       Turn blade inside out
        Set other side
Sharpen:  generally use a 13 degree hook and gum most every time.

Put it on the truck.

[Rick-Wi]

Tom, No matter what there is always a second opinion, and room for improvement. Discusion is the way problems get solved, and new ideas are born.

Rick-Wi

[Rick-Wi]

I logged on to TimberWolf website, and low and behold there is the Cat's Claw sharpener I have? Does Timberwolf make them for Cook's of Cook's for Timberwolf?

Rick-Wi

[Tom]

By golly, you're right.  I'll bet Tim's branching out.  He is big at making his own stuff even if it looks a lot like somebody else's ;D  

He used to buy blade guide wheels for Accu-trac from Wood Mizer till WM caught on and made it too espensive for him to use their guide.  So, Tim now makes his own.  

That sharpener looks too much like Cook's for suffolk to be "knocking it off" or visa versa.  Looks like suffolk is selling cams and grinding wheels for cook sharpeners too.  Maybe Dothan, Alabama is being recognized as a viable player in the sawmill market finally. :D

[Tom]

 :-/ I've been thinking about what you said about setting and then sharpening.

"I have also heard of some that set tooth first and then sharpen. Reasoning being that the sharpener will sharpen each tooth to the same height."

Like I said earlier, I set and then sharpen.  Making the teeth at the same height is something I've heard too but here again you run into arguments on the other side.  There are blades created today, along with fancy sharpeners to maintain them, that tout variable height teeth. I'm not sure of the configuration but I think they are raker blades too and the rakers are taller than the set teeth.  

It just goes to show that about the time we think we have the answer, someone has a new idea.

I'm not much help in telling folks the right way to do something for this reason.  I can tell them what I do, but I do the most expediant thing for me that works.  Perhaps my processes lag the current wave of innovation but I've always been of the mind that I shouldn't fix what ain't broke.

Eventually I'll come around if it's a good idea......and I need to change.  I've done some experimenting and find that I waste a lot of time on invention when I should be cutting wood.  Invention or discovery is important when you need it though.
  
Way back in the 1990's (I like to say that)  I was having problems with the speed of my blade in pine.  The blades I could purchase, Woodmizer at the time,  were set at about 18 thousands and hooks were more in the range of 8 and 10 degrees.  I was reading the Wood Mizer house organ, it was a little newspaper then, and the fellow who runs the distributorship in Oregon said "the softer the wood, the more agressive the tooth"

I had not thought of changing the tooth configuration too much.  After all, those were some pretty smart gurus that created the one I was using.  Then I began to put 2 and 2 together.  When I first started, Woodmizer blades had flat gullets.  The reasoning, I was told, was that the band was stronger with more material in it.  Then they went to curved gullets.  "Why did you do that when you were so adament about how good the flat gullets were", I asked.  I was told that everyday  something better comes up.  (I figure it has a lot to do with marketing available product or being different for the sake of being different.  That sells too.)

So, I took my new found awakening to the sharpener and started messing with tooth height, set and rake. Those were the only things I new to change.  Lo and behold, I found that a tooth height greater than 3/16, a set of 21 thousandths and a rake of 13 degrees was running through pine like hot butter.  It still seemed to work in most of the hardwoods I sawed too, so I have left my sharpener there.  I could only change tooth height by grinding the stone differently so Height didn't change too much.  I also found that i could turn the ram on the sharpener over and change the shape and depth of the gullet.  I was into that for awhile but things began to get too complicated and I realized that I needed to be cutting wood so I backed off.  Well it was almost 10 years later and Wood Mizer now has "invented" the 13 degree hook so I guess I did good.

The reason for this tirade  :D , I guess, is to say that sawing is as much of an art as it is a science.  Woods are different from one end of the country to the other, one season to another and from species to species.  What we need to discover is what works for us without complicating our lives.

There will always be someone with enough time on his hands to play with new ways, and plenty of people with problems they are trying to solve by experimenting, and manufacturers who are looking for a bigger share of the market with something new.  We should realize that we can "tamper" too, it's not just the guru's that have all the answers nor will we necessarily discover an answer either.  

In the same breath we need to realize that our goal is to cut the wood in our locality and not worry about creating the perfect sawblade or sawmill for everybody else.  All these different configurations are just someone elses idea of what works for him. :-/

There is one thing I have found to be constant and that is a "SHARP" tooth.  Sharp teeth can't be created by rushing the stone so we must learn patience when tending to blades.  :P

I didn't start off to be so lengthy, excuse me.  It was fun though.

[Frank_Pender]

I am sure glad that I do not have to worry about all that stuff called set etc..  8) 8) I just keep sharp points on my teeth and knaw away at the logs.  My circle saws do a very fine job of making smoooooth lumber.   One mill has 52 teeth, another 18 and the thrid has 24.  

[Tom]

Sounds like Ugly Eddy......He had 18 teeth once. :D

What do you do for Kerf ?  somebody must make those teeth as wide as they are.  Heck, I've got a planer that cuts a narrower trough than some circle mills I've seen. ;D

[Rick-Wi]

Tom, Well if you look at any circle saw blade the raker is always shorter then the cutting teeth. Why because it's only job is to clear a path for the next cuting teeth. Now on a tripple chip the first two teeth take out the sides of the cut and the third tooth smothly takes out the center. They are also made in sets of Five, Right left, right left,Raker.

Anywho, One thing I see is that setting first or last, the Raker is still the same height and will cut, and it ain't supposed too.

Rick-Wi

[Tom]

Rick,
I think of Circle mills as having inserts and swaged teeth.  I guess it doesn't have to be that way because inserts are relatively new, but that's just how I think.  My experience with them is nil.  I have watched local small mills a little and have seen the sawyers tend to the blade and teeth but I wouldn't know where to start.  My comments toward 'Frank are in jest not fact because I know not what I speaketh.

I have heard of tooth configurations as you describe, but am familiar only with raker.   Skip tooth (a raker I understand) and wave blades I've seen and used but don't know anything of the technology.  Inserts I've seen and semi-understand but have never had to work with them.  I know that there are a miriad of tooth designs on smaller saws, like skills, but have studied them only grossly and understand them superficially.  

So, I guess I'll have to leave the expertise to you.

[Jeff]

We must be talking circle saws that go in power tools cause my circle saw don't have rakers.  +The tooth gullet removes the wood the bits cut it loose. The tooth kerf creates the path for the saw plate to run without friction. I must say, one benefit that a circle saw has over the band is when it comes time to sharpen. I can get out and do it in 5 or ten minutes, not only sharpen, but use sharpening as a tool to make my saw perform the way I need it to for different wood conditions and species.