Bartering for logs.....

[firefighter ontheside]

Has anyone ever done this?  In particular, I will trade my woodworking/finish carpentry skills for logs.  Most of them will be walnut. I need to figure out how much of my time each log is worth to me.  I will need to sell some of this walnut to make it worth my while, which I have never done.  Any insight would be helpful.  Thanks.

[Darrel]

I did, or tried to do that type of thing in the past and decided to pass on it. First I came up with a $$ value on the logs and a $$ value on my labor. Then came up with these logs are worth X amount of time. The guy with the logs was sure that I was getting the better end of the deal and I felt like he was wanting me to work for free so we went our separate ways. 

[Magicman]

Work for cash, buy for cash, and sell for cash.  That way there is no question regarding the value of anything.

[firefighter ontheside]

I could see that happening, especially with someone you don't know.  My friend knows that they have just left walnut logs to rot to nothing in the past.  I'm pretty sure he is fine with me getting the better end of the deal, but once I come up with a value I'll see if he was on the same page.

[firefighter ontheside]

Definitely no question that way magicman.

[WV Sawmiller]

   In WV barter is a way of life. Part of it is economics, part is the social aspect.  If you want to buy something the first thing the seller will ask is "What do you have to trade for it?" Same if you want to sell something. If both of you have something the other wants then you just have to come to terms on the value to the other of what each of you has to offer.

   I agree the easiest way is figure out what your labor/skill is worth and figure out what the walnut/wood is worth then say I will build this product or do this for this much money. I will take cash or if you have wood to sell/trade I will offer this much for the logs." If there is a difference you pay him the difference or vice versa.

   In a good barter both customers leave happy thinking they traded what they had for something that is worth more to them.

   If you are interested in bartering for logs I'd advertise "Have ___ woodworking skills for sale or will trade for ___." Don't give away your skills or expect you customer to give away his logs. Good luck.

[firefighter ontheside]

This is only something I'm gonna do with my friends who own this farm.  We have a long previous relationship.  I have done a lot of work for them in the past.  I just have never had a mill before now.

[WV Sawmiller]

  In that case you should be able to tell them "This amount of logs is worth more than what I would normally charge for this amount of work" and your friends should think the value of your woodworking is worth more to them than the logs would have been to them and you both should be happy. 8)

[TKehl]

I'll do some trading.  (not just logs and such)  But frankly, only if I'm on the better end of the deal, at least from my perspective.  This could be from value, what I paid versus what I'm asking, or that I did some serious value adding along the way without a lot of time.  

Only reason I'll deviate is if someone has something I really want or need and don't have the cash.  

Make it a good enough offer that you'll have a smile on your face if they take it, not so good that you'd regret doing the deal, or so greedy that you regret missing the deal later.  

Woodworking for trade can be a good deal as you are taking skilled labor and turning it into bulk material.  Just don't go pound for pound.   :D

[TKehl]

This is only something I'm gonna do with my friends who own this farm.  We have a long previous relationship.  I have done a lot of work for them in the past.  I just have never had a mill before now.

This is a different scenario.  Amongst friends, and outside of business, I try not to keep anything more than a mental tally.  If they're a given' I'm a given'.  A nice bench, name log, or some furniture are all very thoughtful and appreciated.  
Though, since we are talking Walnut, I'd be more generous than just Oak.

[Sixacresand]

I don't do bartering, especially pine or gum.  After milling, stacking, sticking tediously on a day long project, more logs to mill is not my kind of a reward.   

[Bruno of NH]

I'm with MM on this one.
That kind of arrangement has never worked on my favor.

[moodnacreek]

M.M. is right on with the cash answer.  Most people see wood as fire wood if anything. You would have to grade the logs and keep tract of what the local buyer is paying to be fair. You will be accused of cheating to land owner.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Do you have the cash to buy the logs? 

   Would you feel comfortable buying and would your friend feel comfortable selling them to you? 

   If you bought them is there a chance your friends will feel you took advantage of them? 

   In some cases the personal aspect of your craftsmanship might be worth more than cash to your friends. I have things I would sell but would not feel comfortable selling them to friends - I'd rather give them to my friends than sell them but they might fell guilty accepting them so we both lose. 

   Barter has its place but as I said before at the end you should both feel ahead of the game on the transaction.

[moodnacreek]

You could go broke real quick buying high grade walnut today.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Yes. But opening statement said he planned to sell some so if he has the right market he could also do well on the purchase. I don't know enough about such to attempt it but don't discourage others.

   I'll stick with my contention that there is a place for barter and this may well be one of his friends would like him to have the logs and he has skills they could use and would be proud to show their friends.

   I can hear them saying "Look at this beautiful entertainment center Joe built for us and all he would take for pay was some old logs were just going to cut up for firewood."

   

[bags]

Those are "words of wisdom" (old say'in) Magicman.

[Ianab]

Keep track of the cash value, even if it's just in your head with a good friend. 

If you can say "This bench I made would usually sell for $500" and "I would pay $100 each for those walnut logs."  OK, you bring me 5 good logs, and take the bench home. 

What they are offering has to have some value to you. I wouldn't barter for pine either, I have tons of it free for the taking, and no good use or market for it. Now Walnut or Cedar? Yeah maybe we can cut a deal there. 

Now if the other party doesn't agree with those values, then he either thinks your selling price is too high, or your buying price is too low. You might haggle, or you don't do the deal. If he thinks the logs are worth $200 each, fine, tell him to sell them to the other guy, and you are still happy to sell him the bench for cash. If he thinks the bench is too expensive, you may still want to open your wallet and buy his logs.

You can also explain how you put a value on logs depending on size and quality. Show him how a log scale works, and how much you pay for various logs. Small knotty ones are only $1 a bd ft. Large clear ones might be $3 etc. Most folks don't really understand how logs are valued, but they have all heard of the semi-legendary "Highly Valuable Black Walnut", and may automatically assume that's what they have. Hence they feel ripped off when you only offer $100 for their log, when if fact that's about what it's actually worth. 

So in the end you have done 2 "cash" deals, but neither of you has to open their wallets. 

[firefighter ontheside]

Lots of good replies.  Thanks for that.  I'm taking all into consideration.  
On the notion of selling, I posted some walnut on craigslist and on Facebook this afternoon.  I haven't had any hits on CL, but have had numerous interested people want to come and look at the lumber.  It seems that FB has become better than CL for selling stuff.

[Brad_bb]

I pay $1/BF for walnut unless it's 16 feet or longer and I can get at least and 8x8 out of it, then I pay $1.25/BF.  I pay $100 delivery fee per 1100-1500 BF Doyle load.  Doesn't matter if it's yard trees or forest tree.  Only about 20 percent are yard trees at most that I'm getting. Granted, if it's a yard tree that you can tell had a swing and easy access for kids, well I won't take that butt log or the lower 6 ft.  But the rest of the tree is fair game.  Those prices seem to work out for me.  I'll risk metal strikes in walnut for that cost.  I know one sawer in Indiana who says he gets all his for free(he hauls it), but where I am in IL, I haven't been able to find any free ones.

Now everyone else's labor seems to be worth $100/hr ($350/hr for an attorney which has not proven to be worth 10 cents), but my labor seems to be worth very little to everyone else. Hmmm.....

I have milled about 5 logs for my log supplier over the last 3 years, but I don't charge anything.  I figure it's just keeping good relations.

[Sixacresand]

My local resharp guy got a good chuckle when I offered him a couple of pine logs for his services.  

[Magicman]

Oh no, don't tell me that he wanted cash! 

[starmac]

That is funny, my local woodmizer guy has ask about trading for logs, but it is 400 miles from logs to him.

[Skipper11A]

Just cut them on the halves.  That means you are even.  If the other guy then wants extra services, you can then  price those appropriately.

[Ianab]

Just cut them on the halves.  That means you are even.  If the other guy then wants extra services, you can then  price those appropriately.

Only if the logs are of some value to you. 
Heck if you want to pay me in pine logs? Nope, I have access to dozens of them, that will probably be lopped up for firewood or left to rot. No value to me. 
Now if you had Walnut logs, we could talk. I'd happily saw 2 walnut logs for you, if you gave me one for myself. 
Now 50/50 MIGHT be a fair deal. But some wood is worth 50c a bd ft, while others are $5. But your sawing costs about the same for both.