No shows from customers - down payments.

firefighter ontheside · October 24, 2018, 09:23:48 AM

With my woodworking, I require a down payment of some sort. Well, a guy called me and ordered a bunch of white oak 2x6. I thought he seemed trustworthy. Well, he wasn't and I have a bunch of lumber to sell. I guess when you're a trustworthy person, you assume others are too. I will never do that again. He has not answered his phone or replied to a text in weeks. Hopefully nothing horrible happened to him, otherwise I'm saving his phone number as someone to not do business with. What do you all require as down payment for a custom order? I'm thinking half of the order. I can have people pay me by PayPal, if they are not real close.

sawguy21 · October 24, 2018, 11:33:39 AM

A deposit is pretty well mandatory unless you have had successful dealings with the customer, 1/2 down seems reasonable. At least the material is covered. I hope you have a market for the lumber.

Brad_bb · October 24, 2018, 12:08:43 PM

Is this the horse stall lumber??? That guy screwed you?

Yes, 1/2 down. You also want to write out a receipt that shows the agreed price, his downpayment, and the balance owed. You also want the terms on ticket. For example, that full payment is required before loading of material. I'm not sure how you will handle checks, because i've heard so many stories of bounced checks, but the customer has the material. I'm thinking it has to be certified funds - cash, certified bank check, for the first purchase. You may decide to take a personal or company check after dealing with the person a number of times, but that's up to you if you want the risk. People can get you there too. How do you protect yourself with paypal or credit cards. I mean if they dispute the charges, but have the material, what is your recourse?

Also, always take photos of the material that is loaded, or delivered so that there is a visual record. We've learned that the hard way with timbers. We deliver the timbers and they claim this was missing or that was missing, and we'd have to eat it and supply them with new pieces and deliver at my extra cost. The we started taking pics of all material loaded or delivered. Then when they tell us this or that was missing and we get the pics off the computer that shows the pieces and send the pics. They then "find" the pieces. I'm not saying it's intentional, but without records like that, things can get confused in someones yard or storage of material and when they can't find it, they assume it wasn't sent, when most of the time, they just can't find it where they are storing it (usually with other similar material).

Southside · October 24, 2018, 12:34:32 PM

Signed PO and 25% down if we have never done business, I treat established relationships differently but that burned me once this summer. Guy kept putting off getting his lumber then just vanished. I was able to sell it eventually.

moodnacreek · October 24, 2018, 01:11:29 PM

Down payments, signed agreements, etc. are all a waste of time. Been there, done that. Go ahead and collect a partial payment and see how it goes. You cut the stuff or pull it and call the guy and he's off to the next project and if your lucky come back some day. Mean while your stuck with the wet moldy load and half the money. This is what I have learned the hard way trying to support myself: If you know you can sell it , take no money, cut it and put it on sticks or if it is odd ball; get paid in full up front.

firefighter ontheside · October 24, 2018, 01:36:42 PM

With my head held down in shame.....yes, horse stall lumber. You guys all have great suggestions and I appreciate you sharing your experience.
Yes, this lumber is tarting to mold, so now I need to restack it and sticker it. I'm still surprised that this guy is standing me up. He may yet call me, but it doesn't seem like it. I'm not sure what I'll say.

Brad_bb · October 24, 2018, 02:14:10 PM

We've all had expensive learning lessons....Stack and sticker it. When dry to 12-15% (air dried) skip plane one side to show the wood and sell it. If you don't have a proper planer, you'll have to wait until you do. Don't bother with lunch box type planer. They aren't meant for large amounts of wood and continuous planing.

Resonator · October 24, 2018, 02:29:49 PM

Make sure you've got a good accountant and a good attorney before you start a business. They can give you the best advice on what to do if a customer doesn't pay.

Southside · October 24, 2018, 02:39:44 PM

No need to hang your head there firefighter, he is the low life, not you. It's a business and you have to treat it that way, otherwise there are folks who will try to take advantage of you. You have to pay for your $5.00 burger at McDonalds or they don't even send the order out back to ~~cook~~ nuke it. At a sit down place you pay after you eat as there is some rapport established, but of course there are always the eat and runs. Lesson learned, the good thing is if you can get it dried and graded it's worth more to you.

firefighter ontheside · October 24, 2018, 03:02:30 PM

I've listed the lumber for sale, but I will work on stacking it. I've been in business as woodworker for years and I have had a policy to collect money for materials ahead of time. I'm new to the sawmill business and just did t apply what I already know.

As far as CPA, that's my father in law.
Lawyer, that's one of my best friends. I'm all set on that front.

Crusarius · October 24, 2018, 03:03:19 PM

if you do take a deposit make sure there is a stipulation written and signed that anything left over 30 days or however long you think is fair is forfeited. otherwise I think you may be on the hook for indefinite storage. I could be wrong here but its one less thing to take a chance on.

petefrom bearswamp · October 24, 2018, 03:14:09 PM

x2 crusarius
If I have dealt with a customer before in a trustworthy manner I require a very small down payment IF the material ordered is standard dimension and species.
My usual is 10 %.

YellowHammer · October 24, 2018, 04:13:01 PM

I'm of the same mind as Moodnacreek. I don't take upfront money for standard orders. If I don't have it, I'll saw it and have it in inventory for the next customer. It actually happens somewhat routinely but not frequently. I've been someone else's warehouse before. I don't have the patience for it. The wood will degrade and must be processed within a certain time window. I saw it as if it was my own and it is, until they pay. I give them two weeks and it's mine again and back in my product stream. They don't owe me anything and I don't owe them anything and their number goes on my call block list. See ya. If they show up later and ask for it I tell them to wait a couple weeks and it will be ready to sell at higher kiln dried prices.

If they just can't get here for some reason, I will work with them, unless they start playing games. Sometimes things happen, I understand.

If it's a full custom sawing order, I require full payment up front. I tell them I have never broken a deal or ripped someone off, and if they haven't either, then there's no problem. I say look at our Google rating and tell me I can't be trusted.

If they appear shady (if my dog barks at them) I just say we don't do custom orders.

slider · October 24, 2018, 05:08:08 PM

Trust the dog

firefighter ontheside · October 24, 2018, 05:14:45 PM

OI've got it about half done with restacking and stickering. Mold is not as bad as I imagined. Luckily it cooled off right after I cut it. I agree about not asking for a deposit when it is something I normally will stock and sell. In this case it's 2x6's which I don't intend to stock. My main goal will be to sell hardwoods ready for woodworking and not horse stalls. I've decided if the guy calls and doesn't have a good reason for being delinquent I'm gonna tell him the lumber will cost him an extra $100 since I've had to handle it twice.

moodnacreek · October 24, 2018, 07:26:02 PM

Actually had a guy break his leg one time and not pick up his trailer plank. He called and told me he wouldn't be around. An honest man, no problem, it could have been me.

POSTON WIDEHEAD · October 24, 2018, 09:14:17 PM

If its an odd size they order.....its payment in full before I saw it.
They can trust me to return their money if they're not happy rather than me trust them to show up.

If its a normal size order of lumber I don't require any down payment.
If they don't show up.....it goes in inventory.
It's always good to have inventory for customers who needs lumber now.

kenfrommaine · October 25, 2018, 04:14:39 PM

As others have said make sure when you get a deposit that you state it will be held for x amount of days and then the deposit is forfeited. I have taken deposit on kitchen cabinets and then had to hold on to them sometimes for a few months! No more, deposit taken, 14 day hold, or they are gone. If they are standard size cabinets then no deposit taken and if they dog me around I just relist them on CL and sell to the next one interested.

Banjo picker · October 26, 2018, 09:51:36 PM

There seems to always be a new twist in this game. I sawed and order of timbers to deck out a bridge for a hunting club...out of logs they provided. They payed me for my sawing, but haven't picked up their lumber. The member that first contacted me said they had about decided to just put rip rap in the crossing and not redeck the bridge, but that they could use the lumber for some other smaller bridges. Its been three weeks and the lumber is dead stacked...not really in the way yet, but it will be. Banjo

firefighter ontheside · October 26, 2018, 10:12:13 PM

I'd rather have that problem, but still a pain. You don't want to store their stuff indefinitely and when do they forfeit ownership.

PAmizerman · October 27, 2018, 02:15:58 PM

Had a guy message me on thursday and wanted two 21' beams. I gave him a price and he said ok go ahead and saw them.
I told him I need payed up front before I would saw them. He said no problem.
Last night he cancelled. Dodged a bullet there. I just had a feeling he was not that interested. It's an easy way to weed out the no shows.

Jim_Rogers · October 27, 2018, 04:25:40 PM

My price list says: "prices subject to change without notice"

It also says 7 days free storage on all paid invoices. then $10 per day after that.
People pick up their lumber right away.

Jim Rogers

YellowHammer · October 27, 2018, 07:07:21 PM

I also charge the local self storage facility going rate. Otherwise people will just leave their stuff here until it's convenient for them to pick it up.

More than once I've had customers tell me they had so and so down the road mill their wood, or dry their wood or whatever, but they didn't want to pick it up for awhile because they didn't have the money, or didn't need it right then, didn't have a customer for it or otherwise weren't ready for it. So they leave it sitting until until mill owner starts complaining.

I'm the other way around, if they leave their wood here, I'm making money. No problems, sure, leave it another week or two, no hurry. ;D ;D
Will that be cash or charge?

Once they figure this out, they come get it pretty quick.