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Author Topic: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer  (Read 2305 times)

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Offline jovol

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Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« on: November 21, 2018, 08:17:39 PM »
Howdy all,
I'm looking for some advice regarding a trailer setup I have in mind. I have a small sawmill company I'm starting from the ground-up, and for now I'm focusing on wide trees in the 2-3' diameter range that I make and sell slabs from. I need to be able to transport these suckers back to my house, so I'm thinking of adding a ~6-8000 lb knuckleboom to a trailer, then run the knuckleboom off a PTO on my F350.

Does a knuckleboom like a Hiab 650 (picture attached) mounted on the front of a tri-axle, 9 ton trailer like in the picture attached sound doable? One concern that pops in my mind is too much tongue weight on my truck, since these knucklebooms weigh nearly 2000 lb. I imagined mounting the crane just in front of the deck. Another concern is whether a PTO off my F350 can run the knuckleboom? I don't have much experience with hydraulic systems (but I'm eager to learn).

Regarding mounting the crane, how do these things normally get fastened? Are there anchor plates with bolts, or welding on?

I appreciate any advice. I'm aware I could go purchase something like an '80s flatbed f800 with a knuckleboom already included, but I'd rather keep my equipment inventory to one truck (srw 2004 f350 6.0 6spd) that gets decent mpg, and then have a trailer carry the loader so I'm not carrying that around with me all the time when I'm just using the truck. I don't imagine hauling forest full of trees, mainly I look out for locals who need 1-2 big trees taken down and so I'd just be hauling ~10k lb at a time. I'm hoping to keep it a pull-behind trailer instead of a gooseneck so that I can put my ATV and/or log-arch in the bed, then I can have a one-trip solution to sourcing logs.

John

 

2017 LT50 wide, 2004 LT40 G28 (for sale), ms250, ms661 42” granberg, Logrite fetching arch, 2000 New Holland LS180, Ford 6.0s

Offline Brian w

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2018, 08:42:45 PM »
Hello I am a logger in southeast Ohio and I appreciate the trying to stay with just one truck but what you are talking about doing with the truck is going to be very hard on  f 350  the best thing would be to get a truck purpose built for what you are doing it will be better on you and the truck but about the loader you can run it from a one ton truck but if it's not a diesel the high rpm will be hard on the engine I've seen several people around here use ton trucks but they just don't hold up long. But best of luck to you

Offline Stuart Caruk

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2018, 08:57:26 PM »
I've used my Dodge megacab 1 ton for several years to tow my skidsteers, kubota KX-161 excavtor and a 14,000 pound dump trailer with zero issues or problems. I'm building a log hauler using a log loader from a wrecked self loading log truck. It will be heavier than yours and I'm only using a pair of axles instead of the 3 you have.

Considering the front axle supports a percentage of weight of the loader, the truck won't be insanely overloaded. If it is, you can move your rear axle up front and balance the rig with your loaded logs. If I had that setup, I wouldn't think twice.

As far as hydraulics go, you just need enough power to push about 8 - 15 GPM at 3000 PSI. That's easy for any PTO pump out there. On mine, I've got a spare 2 cyl motor that I'm setting up as a portable hydraulic powerplant. It will ride on this trailer when I need it, or hook up to a processor when I don't.

Good luck in your project. Send pictures...
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Offline jovol

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2018, 10:21:43 PM »
Appreciate the replies folks :) Stuart -- you give me much encouragement!

Poking around at other threads on this topic, I just discovered I will be needing a Class A license to do this kind of hauling (at least in North Carolina). I thought I could avoid that hassle staying under 26k gvwr, but any trailer over 10k gvwr needs a Class A!
2017 LT50 wide, 2004 LT40 G28 (for sale), ms250, ms661 42” granberg, Logrite fetching arch, 2000 New Holland LS180, Ford 6.0s

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2018, 10:37:31 PM »
 Honestly your further ahead unless you've bought the stuff already to buy a purpose built trailer with the loader already on it, most of them I've seen have a built in powerpack for the hydraulics. If you hunt around on FB or CL I've seen a few low hr ones for 1/2 of new and you dont have the headaches. Welcome to the big boy world of trucks / trailers 😂 you get a set of DOT #'s, extinguisher and triangles, up to date physical, HUT sticker because now you have the ability to gross over 18k combined weigh, it all adds up and something to figure in.

Offline jovol

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2018, 11:03:18 PM »
I've yet to buy either piece, but they're the highest on my radar (especially that trailer... $1100 asking price!). I'm struggling to find any used trailers with a loader that would be appropriate for a 1 ton truck, or if I do they're like $14k :(
2017 LT50 wide, 2004 LT40 G28 (for sale), ms250, ms661 42” granberg, Logrite fetching arch, 2000 New Holland LS180, Ford 6.0s

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2018, 11:26:09 PM »
 I'm not trying to discourage you from a project, I'm beyond cheap when it comes to buying / building something myself, I've just learned the hard way a couple times. The salt eats everything alive up here, we recently went thru a 3axle similar to that one, you want to check the suspension over real well because it gets costly. Those types of trailers are a "niche" market, another guy I know sold one for 7k ? here recently minus the powerpack. 

Offline jovol

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2018, 01:40:49 AM »
Actually, on rereading the NC license requirements, it seems I’m good with my normal class C license for anything gcvwr less than 26000lb. Hurray!
2017 LT50 wide, 2004 LT40 G28 (for sale), ms250, ms661 42” granberg, Logrite fetching arch, 2000 New Holland LS180, Ford 6.0s

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2018, 03:58:41 PM »
Be careful you may still need a commercial license and at the very least some sort of bill of destination plus a brand possibly. If I was a dot, state trooper, or a sheriff you’d be easy picking so follow every letter of the law including how timber is supposed to be tied down.

Online mike_belben

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2018, 10:03:59 PM »
What stuart said.  

If you bias the axles forward youll need to cut off some beavertail or theyll hang you up alot at quick ground transitions.  dirt plowing destroys tail lights on those.   

Look real hard at your old pintle trailers for rust jacking where the leaf spring subframe and mainframe are stack welded.  Also watch for bent rear most axle on those old eager beavers and such.  Those dexter mobile home looking spoke axles are only 6k so if a hoe or dozer is loaded without the ramps grounding out itll smile the back axle.  Look from behind and see that all the cambers are the same down the line and leafs arent broke.


Locally a worn out trailer isnt bad but long diatances at interstate speed and heavy loads or especially hot weather theyll eat tires from worn bushings. The econoline multimax type is the worst for this.  A dual tandem is much better than a triaxle or multimax if you can find one.  Interstate makes a great tag trailer. The triaxles do have great brakes and those 14.5 lowpro tires are real cheap and easy to mount with levers, no bead to break. 

Triaxles resist reversing into jackknife turns on tar really bad, especially loaded.  Thats when theyll break a ubolt or spring or unseat a front tire.  They scrub fronts to death in tight city quarters.  I used low range a lot with the hubs unlocked for backing into my tiny former driveway.  A dual tandem doesnt have these issues.


The hydraulics is pretty simple, a 7hp lawnmower engine could do it.  
Revelation 3:20

Offline bill m

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2018, 09:22:23 AM »
Did I read correctly you have an F-350 single rear wheel truck? I don't believe that's enough truck to safely do what you want to.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2018, 03:58:59 PM »
There are dual wheel conversion kits for the F series and spacers to widen out front wheel track.
Take a woodmizer to the woods if the safety and other legal aspects allow. Probably tow a 60-70 hp compact track loader on a dually conversion etc. Towing timber slabs might look better than towing logs.

If you can't mill on site  in the woods, it may be preferable to focus on the sawmill operation site initially. Have the logs transported for you.
Probably a few safety 'bads' in this video. See in an injury accident in a recent video. Plenty of small sawing operations on youtube to see what might work.


Offline snowstorm

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2018, 05:03:17 PM »
the last thing you want to do is put the dual wheel conversion kit on a truck. i know someone that tried it. it broke every stud all at once. he said never again. and if anyone needs to replace wheel studs on a ford buy them from ford. they are far stronger than the napa junk 

Offline Stuart Caruk

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2018, 08:54:58 PM »
I've owned lots of 1 ton trucks in my life. Both dual and single wheels. MY weapon of choice now is my Dodge MegaCab 1 ton. I routinely move my 12,800# excavator around behind it on a 14,000 # trailer and don't think twice about it except when coming down insanely steel hills that run for miles. It has no problem pulling the load uphill, but downhill one has to plan ahead. For routine towing on sane roads, it's the bomb. I wouldn't think twice of pulling that trailer. IN fact I'm in the process of building one for myself.
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Online mike_belben

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2018, 09:30:59 PM »
I have a 97 dodge 3500 4x4 with mildly turned up 12v and pulled my goose with it one time at 23k combined at residential speeds.  Had plenty of power but braking wise It didnt feel safe at all to me in a quick stop.  It has F350 front knuckles and brakes (bigger/better than dodge), all in good service.  Without trailer brakes i dont think the truck could have stopped that down a mountain.  And i definitely couldnt forget that it was behind me.

My 2ton juice brake truck and same trailer i have run up to 42k combined in the mountains and no issue controlling or stopping the load.  Thats got a 13spd and an exhaust brake that can do almost all off the slowing in most situations if youre dilligent and shift alot.  At 25k i can forget the the trailer is behind me and dont really need to use the service brake, engine can do it all. No feeling of getting pushed around by the load until its in the mid 30s combined.  The truck weighs 11k. Dodge was around 9 but felt like half the truck. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2018, 09:41:18 PM »
Don't build pickups like they used to

Offline Stuart Caruk

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2018, 12:58:15 AM »
Wonder what the fine would be for that today after the DOT guy stopped ya...
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2018, 07:27:31 AM »
25 to life!
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Offline charles mann

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2018, 04:37:32 PM »
My company used the sterling 4500 (ram 4500, but evidently owned by ford and neither manufacturer wants to mess with it) but now uses the ram 4500 with a knuckle boom for the BV-107 crews. It is powered by a pto pump and is installed just behind the cab, via 3/4” dia U-bolts and 1” x 3” flat bar.
So yes, a pto would work. But why not use a pony motor to run a hydraulic pump? 
Temple, Tx
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Offline Mt406

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Re: Advice on adding a knuckleboom to a 14k-18k gvwr trailer
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2018, 05:49:55 PM »
Its a kinda pay now or pay more later.
I have tried the one truck dose all pulling hard all the time was a endless repair of u-joints yokes, tires, clutch's and breaks.
Buy the time you have a trailer builted  that can handle a knuckleboom you don't have much GVW left.
Your also in the CDL size anyway 

I found this set up I can load logs and pull my skid steer and get 9mpg.

good luck 
Scott

 

   


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