How would you do it?

[CabinCreations]

Hey guys, I am beginning to think/dream up a new building for a portable sawmill. I'd be curious what your thoughts are on a layout. 

Here is what I need/want the building to function as: 

1. Mill Shed
2. Kiln (KD150 size)
3. Equipment Storage (Tractors, Implements, etc.)
4. Sawmill Storage/Sharpening Shed

A kiln and sharpening shed will (hopefully) come at a later date, but I would like to plan for it now so that I don't have to change things later. 

I have a separate, older building not far from where this building would stand for air drying lumber. 

Here is the catch, to avoid having to get a building permit I have to limit the building to 1,000 square feet. So am I thinking something like 32' x 30', but how would you lay this out? Or is trying to put all this under one roof not worth it? 

Below is my first crack at it: 



 

Thanks!
Kody

[alan gage]

If you have to keep it under 1000 square feet the obvious answer to me would be multiple buildings. 

To me everything, with the possible exception of the sharpening room, looks too small. But it all depends on what you're storing, what you're sawing, and what your drying. But it also depends on what you might be doing in the future.

How much hassle does a building permit bring? Around here all it would mean would be $25 to the city.

Alan

[CabinCreations]

Alan - Thanks for your reply. Multiple builds may be a better solution but I was hoping to cover as many bases as I could with the first build. This is a small operation with support equipment consisting of an atv/future tractor and a log arch. I got the kiln dimensions (roughly) from the build documented by Out the Woods (123Maxbars on the FF) who uses a KD150 kiln from Wood-Mizer.

A building permit around here also brings detailed plans and inspections throughout the build. I could go that route if I had to, but was trying to avoid it if possible.  

- Kody

[doc henderson]

Hey CC.  In our town we need a permit over 100 sq. feet so a 10 x 10 garden shed.  I am sure you have done your homework, but just checking.  It used to be no big deal here, but they promoted a young kid and he likes to argue about everything to show that he is smarter than everyone else.  So I feel your pain.

[CabinCreations]

Hey Doc - I questioned the allowable square footage too because I thought that was a large building to not have inspected, but I did confirm it with the township so I am in the clear as long as the Zoning Permit is approved. But since they pretty much only look at setbacks from property lines for Zoning Permits, I should have no problem getting the go ahead. 

[Iwawoodwork]

call it an "ag" building, in many areas there is very little requirements for ag buildings built for other than  human living quarters, see if that is less code issues.

[CabinCreations]

I'll have to ask about agriculture use. That may be a good work around. Thanks!

[doc henderson]

Is any of this shop going to be heated or cooled.  Might want to consider having a free standing kiln to isolate heat and or moisture.  Would get more space and if there is no limit on building number or, percent of available land covered by buildings, you will gain a bit.  Also think about door size for equipment area and kiln.  Will there be large outside doors, or did you plan to bring everything through the building.  I assume the saw area is open faced?

[Tin Horse]

I'll have to ask about agriculture use. That may be a good work around. Thanks!

I went the "ag" route here in Ontario for my shop ( 28'x 30'). I started last spring and still not done. I'm guessing my building inspector will not be happy when he sees it finished. Then what? :-\

[CabinCreations]

The kiln would be the only thing that would be heated in the future. I was thinking that with all the insulation and wrapping that would be installed around the kiln the moisture wouldn't be an issue. Any thoughts on that? 

I was planning two doors on the equipment area (basically a very small garage) and two doors on the kiln. The saw area would be open on the three exterior sides to allow easier moving of the mill and log loading.  

[doc henderson]

I do not know about Canada, but here they could in theory, make you take it down.. More likely make repairs, and poss. just tell you not to do it again.  If you sell a property and there is a building inspection, and your building did not meet code (at the time it was built), it might mess with a buyers financing or they may ask for money to fix/bring up to code.  Of course the municipality wants the tax revenue.  

[CabinCreations]

Tin Horse - You have to get your 'ag' building inspected in Ontario? Our code says what Doc just mentioned. They could make me remove the building if it was completed before an inspector (if required) did their job. 

[doc henderson]

Insulation only slows movement of heat.  According to recent posts a wood framed kiln structure should last about 20 years if properly built due to moisture and chemical liberated from the wood.  I will try to find some links for you but if you are in go mode you can search the forum.  the recent one was about using a mobile office trailer.  The wood Dr. Gene Wengert  has done research and written extensively in this area.  read or google Virginia tech solar kiln.  

[CabinCreations]

That's really interesting. I never considered chemicals released from the drying wood. I may re-consider placing the kiln under the same roof then. I sure would be disappointed if that part of the building only lasted 20 years and then the whole building had to be retrofitted. A stand alone kiln may be more reasonable. 

I will dig into that a little bit more, but that you for bringing it to my attention. 

[doc henderson]

read Office Trailer Kiln.  also we can see if @GeneWengert-WoodDoc will weigh in.  

[doc henderson]

My mill will cut up to 21 feet, so when I build my kiln it will be at least 20 feet long to get say 18 foot boards in there.  Then depending on your design, prob. 8 or 10 feet wide.  You can go to Nyle and find there detailed plans on line.  They are a sponsor and have a tab on this page.  to the left side.  click resources, manuals, then n200 or the 53.  the first 20 pages are all about recommended construction of the chamber.  Their are Nyle reps on this site.  I called them the other day and the guy on the phone is on this site.  There is a welcome Nyle post that can get you to him/

[DPatton]

CabinCreations,

As it's been said on this forum many, many times. You can never build a shed too big. 

[CabinCreations]

Doc - I will take a look at the Nyle site. I have look there before but must have overlooked the chamber construction in the manuals. 

DPatton - I agree. There is no such thing as a shed that is too big, so I guess my wallet is just to small  :'(

[doc henderson]

CC.  that is why I had to call.  I assumed they reserved the plans for after you bought.  The chamber plans are part of the manual for the dehumidifier unit.  Best regards.

[tylerltr450]

I  think the sharpening shed is to small, those darn blades take up a lot of room when trying to sharpen and set next to each other. For my area I need a lot room and there is a lot of dead space due to the way the sharpening tools are setup. I converted my bench top to a mobile stand and I would never go back.

[rubberfish]

CabinCreations,

As it's been said on this forum many, many times. You can never build a shed too big.

True that. When I bought my current home here in the city I thought the detached shop
(28X30) was frickin' huge. Now 12 years later I couldn't even swing a dead cat in there.
CC. It sounds like you're doing all your homework. Good on ya. Build as big as your wallet allows.  8)

[doc henderson]

Office Trailer Kiln in Drying and Processing.  Tyler do you recommend long and skinny for the sharpening room.  what do you consider to be the ideal dimension

[doc henderson]

you may want 2 separate buildings, one with heat and a nice floor.  If you pour a concrete floor, I would also place pex for radiant heat, even if there are no immediate plans for heat.  If they were the same width buildings separated by say 20 to 30 feet, you might be able in your 3rd phase, connect up the two rooves to make a breezeway and eventually add walls to link the 2 into one.  Let us know how much mula your CFO will approve for us to spend for you.  The possibilities are nearly endless.  lol   You have a lot of years ahead, and if you can make much of your needed materials with your mill, that will help.  If you only pour concrete where you need it, that will save money, esp. if designed so it can be poured later when able, sys in the mill or equipment part.

[tylerltr450]

This was my original setup





It took up 5x16 and I need more with have the arms attached. I actually had to over lap the blades to make setting and grinding work together.

Now I'm on rollers and I take up almost no room now. Gained back 5feet




Close up of the cart




This is what it looks like now
Sure I have to put the arms up everytime I want to sharpen but its worth the trade off.




As you can tell before and after is a major change.

[tylerltr450]

Office Trailer Kiln in Drying and Processing.  Tyler do you recommend long and skinny for the sharpening room.  what do you consider to be the ideal dimension.

I would say it depends, I sharpen for other people and my room is 24x18. I used up just for machines alone 5x18. I found it very hard to work having the units overlapping the arms which is why I went with a mobile design. I would say depending on the size bands you can get away with the OP size but for me folding the blades up and taking them apart you can really burn up about 12x18.