The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019-20

[Old Greenhorn]

@Nebraska , the nice thing about a hay load is that it is fairly evenly spread out (stacking choices notwithstanding), but with machines I will have several hundred pounds, or more focusing it's weigh on just 4 or 5 small points. True, I could, and probably put load sharing boards under the feet (AKA trip hazards) or make fitted skids for them to spread it a bit. I'd love to get my vertical band saw up there but I thing it is too heavy to get up the stairs.
@btulloh this is something that has been on my list since we bought the house 32 years ago. I am just keeping a promise to myself and trying to make more working room in the shop. After all this time I STILL have a bunch of machines I have not had room to set up and operate.
 I am just trying to get my act together. ;D

[Old Greenhorn]

I found this photo of the fist loft I did exactly two years ago this week. This one is 12x20 give or take. It's still holding up well and completely full of 'stuff'. Same basics: 6x8 posts, 2x10 headers, doubled up, and 2x8 joists. All pine and pretty doggone solid. Yes, it is an extension of the 12x12 you can glimpse on the lower right in the photo which was there when I arrived.


 

[SawyerTed]

Yep 6/4 for flooring to support machines and possibly some additional blocking between the joists where the machines stay.  The blocking will help the weight spread to several joists.  

When sheathing and subfloors were planks instead of plywood/OSB, they were applied at an angle to the joists.  Angled subflooring had more to do with expense of plywood and installation of the finished floor.  I don't think you will gain an advantage by angling your floor boards.

[btulloh]

What are you doing for access?  Stairs, ship ladder, ladder, elevator?  Just curious. 

[Old Greenhorn]

What are you doing for access?  Stairs, ship ladder, ladder, elevator?  Just curious.

Well, I was thinking of levitation. But then I thought "hey, I have never heard of anybody using a solar elevator, maybe I can build one of those?" Then I woke up. :D

No seriously, there is already a set of stairs there and I am working around them as is. Mostly because I don't see any better ideas. I'll try to get a photo tonight if that helps at all.
@SawyerTed I think your are correct, there is little or no benefit. I think it would look nice, and I have never done one. Since I just this summer got my son roped into a job doing a custom oak floor on a 45° bias (and it came out fantastic!) I thought I should take some of my own medicine and try it just for fun.
I could also cut and screw down some heavier plywood on top of the floor under any machines. Then trim it with quarter round or lip molding.

[doc henderson]

I am sure you know, but braces between the joists would give structure to support tools as well.  you could also laminate you floor with hardwoods.  like a subfloor, and then a nicer wood on top, with an alternate orientation. you can also frame with 2x material flat under the subfloor to strengthen the area under a tool.  you do good work. ;)  (levitation was a great beer no longer produced by stone brewing company)

I have a loft in my shop, and store stacks of dry wood on it.  it is above what will be my paint spray room, and only has 2 to 4 feet of head room.  my shop ceiling is made with scissor trusses.

kids and wives do not always give credit to the men, who prioritize family, and put off personal goals for years.  see that here all the time.  god speed.  @Old Greenhorn 

[Old Greenhorn]

  you do good work. ;) 

That is not something I get accused of very often, in fact it's been a long time since I have heard that beyond this forum. It must have something to do with the optics and focal distance between NY and KS.
Yeah braces. I use them if needed, but I screw unistrut pieces to the bottoms of the rafter so that I can put long 'things' on top of them between the joists for storage.   I hide a LOT of stuff that way. Putting solid blocks in kind of hampers that, but I think the unstrut straps help a bit to box it in.
 I thought about the laminating idea, but then I am still spending a chunk of money on plywood. I might rather just make thicker boards, then I can claim the entire project as 'local harvested wood'. Of course that means nothing, except to me. But I am still thinking on it. I have months to decide.

[Old Greenhorn]

Good work. Yeah Doc, I just recalled this photo when I was thinking "oh, if he only knew". You kind of have to study this for a bit. I have a hand crank lift and I was trying to get that last 2x10x20 header up there and I had just run out of gas in my legs and could not lift it. So I stacked a bunch of scrap  up on the lift to get it high enough. I just had it balanced on the far end, no clamps or braces holding it up. I have no idea how I pulled this off without dropping it. I know it would have hurt a bit if I didn't get out of it's way. ;D None the less, I got it up there. (Kids, DON'T try this at home.)



 

[doc henderson]

some of our most "fantastical" accomplishments are at least part luck, if we are honest!  "that which does not kill us, makes us stronger"  looks like we also owe part of our strength to lessons learned.  try to tell most kids today that the menial tasks are good lessons. Like you do not just drop your end of a heavy board, without coordinating with the guy on the other end! .  I also like "too soon old, too late smart"  :D.  (for a German accent replace "old"  with "olt!) 8)

[doc henderson]

instead of plywood, use 2 layers of "free" hardwood.  use pine or cottonwood under.  the old sub floors were at a 45° to the joists, with hardwood on top.

[Old Greenhorn]

Not to belabor this, but some photos might help those who are trying to help me. Understand the shop is a mess from a summer of running in and out with projects. It gets a good weekend long cleaning when the weather gets really cold and I will live with it for now.
Here is a shot looking straight down the main bay. You have to do a lot of cleaning up in your mind. That big green parts cabinet is going away, either as a gift to the first taker, or scrap. It takes too much room and does not provide value to me.


 
A slightly tighter shot. The loft will be between the stairs on the left and the block wall on the right. It will come forward from the back wall just 12'. If you find the weed whacker hanging in the right of the photo, you can just make out a window, this will mark the front edge. Before I can even start construction, I have to remove that big white drawer cabinet in the back. It holds about 1,000# of 'stuff' I have the remove all the drawers, cut one set of drawers off of one end, make a new side, and reconstruct it. (It's too long.) Once I have the back corner columns set, I can put it back in place. There is a shelving unit on the bench that will likely go elsewhere because it is probably too tall and non-value added.


 

Walking up the stairs and turning right, this is the view from on top. The loft will cover this area from the wall on the left to the window on the right.



 

It will look a lot like this one. By the way, this shot is from the exact spot I took the photo in my previous post 2 years ago. It's a 'bit' more cluttered now.



 

Finally Doc, here is a sample of the 'under deck storage. No space goes wasted at my place. ;D :D


 

[Old Greenhorn]

Right after I made that post I got a call from a guy interested in that cabinet. He just left and will pick it up Sunday. He wanted to throw it in his car trunk, I laughed and said go ahead and tip that thing up to get a feel for it. His eyes about popped out. It weighs over 200 pounds, I'm sure. I hope he comes back with a real truck. ;D WIN_WIN. He is very happy and I am glad for the new space I have.

[Nebraska]

@Old Greenhorn 
It probably  is beyond the scope of what you want but that is a tall ceiling if you could install an over head beam and trolley between the two decks stuff could actually levitate with a little chain or electric hoist. You have a nice "shop space" mine gets small really fast when I park my  truck inside especially this time of year to keep it from freezing.

[Old Greenhorn]

You read my mind. It is in my mind to add a small timber gantry over the stairs. I can't attach to the ceiling, it is a truss roof, cheap construction (load bearing wise). However I am thinking of a 'trap door' type setup over the stairs so I can flip a platform over and have an opening I can use, then flip it down for walking between the two decks and rolling things back and forth. That will be in the next phase, maybe next winter or fall. I just texted a neighbor/tree guy about the possibility of him dropping off some logs and he is up for it.  8) Not sure what they will cost, but he always gives me a good deal, if he takes any of my money at all.

[ManjiSann]

OG looking good! I'm interested to see how the loft all comes together. It's pretty fantastic that you are milling the timbers then using them to build your loft, that's the ultimate DIY  8) 8)

I'll second Docs comment a few pages back, you do good work. You actually do the work! So many talk about it but never do it or pay someone else to do it, but you're doing it yourself! Wish I lived closer I'd come lend a hand just to see how you're doing things and learn  :P

Keep up the good work and stay safe!

Brandon 

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, I am slow, but I try to stay at it. It won't happen fast, but it will likely happen at some point. I feel like a slacker compared to most of the folks here on the forum.

[Old Greenhorn]

Something Doc said in reply 355 just popped into my head out of nowhere (I have told y'all that I am slow), he said 

"kids and wives do not always give credit to the men, who prioritize family, and put off personal goals for years.  see that here all the time."


 I have never sought 'credit' for anything I have done, I just don't think that way. But, when my son was an adolescent and teenager he thought I was the laziest guy in the world. I would hibernate all winter, sit at my desk, go to work, come home, go to work, etc. I didn't touch anything in the shop for years at a time except to fix things we needed that were broken, like cars, trucks, lawn tractors, etc. Always it was just to 'get it going again'.  The shop was a mess always, just packed with 'stuff'. Hard to do any work out there.
 When the kids moved out our time was focused on caring for both my parents and my father in law, he moved himself into our house and set our family life on it's ear. (Mostly this is what got the kids to move out.) We spent about seven years caring for all 3 parents, it was a second full time job that nearly broke me. We had no money to do 'projects' let alone the time to do them. When my Mom, the last to go, passed away, I was busy with moving a lot of my Dad's tools, guns, and other stuff out. A project which still continues. This was 4 years ago and thus began my ability to do some stuff for our own home. I bought a pre-fab shed and fitted it out, then a temporary portable garage for cold storage. Then I added a loft in the shop and sold off 3 machines. I moved all the remaining machines around to make it more workable. My son watched all this with amazement and frequently commented that he could not believe I could get so much done, so fast, and almost all by myself. This was a new side of his Dad he had never seen. I know he wondered 'Why now?". That was my fault and I realized it too late. I was always too tired when he was growing up. True I had put thousands of hours into his Scouting career, and more into the Fire Department, I was out of the hose 3-5 nights every week, but nothing ever got done around the house for too many years. I am not very proud of that.
 So I guess all this stuff I am doing now is an effort to play 'catch up'. I hope I have enough time. I look at it as I have failed in the past and now I am just trying to make it up as quickly as I can.

[Nebraska]

No you should be proud it is  better to be a good  spouse, a father,  and a care giver, than a handyman, no failure what so ever. You gave to your family and community first. Vanity is not good  and you shoved it into a corner for everyone else..  You can enjoy yourself a little more now and do what you want. Big kudos to you.  8)

[ManjiSann]

OG, I read your post and thought "here's a MAN! Someone I can aspire to be like!"  You put your family, not just wife and kids but parents, before yourself for YEARS. I'm only just now learning to do that and it's not easy at all. You did without so your family could make it. Hopefully your children saw THAT and learned that lesson.

I was always too tired when he was growing up. True I had put thousands of hours into his Scouting career, and more into the Fire Department, I was out of the hose 3-5 nights every week, but nothing ever got done around the house for too many years. I am not very proud of that.

Being a parent is hard draining work, whether you're the father or the mother. You go to work, bust your back hoping you'll have enough to pay the bills and a little extra for fun and retirement. Rather than spend it on yourself you spent it on your sons scouting career, caring for parents, etc. You sacrificed time with family working nights so they could have food and a dry warm roof over their head. It sounds like you would have rather been home with them than working but you worked. That's not failure that's maturity, something so many of us don't have (I'm tossing myself in that don't have basket.)

I could go through each line of your post but I won't. What I will say is we all look back and wish we'd have done things differently but from what you've said it sounds like you did all right. It's very easy for us to look at our lives and pick them apart and pile up the faults, I do that all the time (you've read my posts ;) ) and that gets draining. I wonder why we don't instead pick our lives apart and pile up all the things we did right, whether it was only a little right or a lot right. You may not have sought credit, but take a moment to give yourself some     

Sorry for rambling, hope my meandering thoughts make some sense.

Brandon

[Old Greenhorn]

AH, you guys are making me blush and it's undeserved. I did the best I could and try to get better where and when I can. Brandon, you don't want to be like me. I am sure you can do better. There are thousands of guys on this forum alone who have a better grip on raising a family than I ever will. We are all just trying to do the right thing.
 If I ever grow up, I want to be like @doc henderson because he seems to be better at the balancing thing and he also made much better choices when he was younger than I made at the same age.
 All you can do is the best you can do.

[doc henderson]

we all know our own defects.  but just like a wood project, no one else even sees it, and even when you point out the flaws to others, they love it (you) even more.  come visit some time, and I will let you in on a few of my blemishes!

[ManjiSann]

we all know our own defects.  but just like a wood project, no one else even sees it, and even when you point out the flaws to others, they love it (you) even more.  come visit some time, and I will let you in on a few of my blemishes!

Well said Doc 
Brandon 

[Old Greenhorn]

Well it turned out the be a really good day. I went to work this morning, but with the free overtime I have been working I took the afternoon off. The temp hit over 40 (when I left for work it was 32 and beautiful, hard to go in at all).
 Anyway, I got down to the mill at about 12:30 and got right to it. I had some junk logs that were going to be firewood, but I grabbed one and milled it into 5/4 x 4" boards for the floor decking. Waste not, want not, right?



 
 The other log was too small to waste time on, it's firewood, and I need that too, right?
 Then I put up the log I had been waiting for, the last log!


 

I got 2 6x8's out of it and a bunch of 5/4 boards.


 

 I still have to edge the 5/4's on Saturday, but then I am done and the move begins.




 

 I will miss working down in the woods, no doubt. This afternoon when I was turning a log, a red tailed hawk flew down the length of the mill about 5 feet off the ground. Pretty cool. I will also miss the deer that come around to say 'hi'. 
 I got he 6x8's up on the mule and threw on a 5/4 board I cut for a friend to make a wall mount for his flint lock rifle.


 
 SO yeah, I only had about 4 hours, but I got a bunch done. AT this rate, I should have the mill moved a month earlier than I thought, then I just have to reset it and make it work again.
 It has been working so well lately that my productivity has gone way up, I just keep clicking the boards off. Such was my thought today as I was cutting. That is, until I ran the blade into a backstop.  ;D :D :-[ That blade was pretty shot anyway, but it doesn't pay to get cocky.

[Nebraska]

Good deal,  glad you had a good day. I had plans of milling, the log is qued up and ready,  but I never got close before daylight was gone.  Next year there will be lights.

[Old Greenhorn]

@Nebraska , I am hoping I can say the same thing in 11 months.