The Greenhorn's initial sawing season 2019-20

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, it seems I have that same cold back that I got Thanksgiving weekend, but not quite as bad. Still I am miserable and could not get motivated today so I did mindless stuff. I swept the whole shop (I hate working in a pile of sawdust). Then I just reviewed what I had done to see if I overlooked any details. I never stuck a level up and checked it to see how I had done.
Here is the east to west level, not too bad.


 
And here is the North to South level, not bad at all.


 
I think I can live with that (I'll have to).

Then I looked around and tried to plan where things will go when this is done. Anything I did that created dust just made it impossible to breath. I was still miserable. Wound up taking a nap mid-day. The weather was miserable, rain all day, 1/2" of sleet in the middle, then more rain. I did some household chores but didn't get much done at all beyond thinking. I hope tomorrow is more productive. Still waiting to hear from the guy with the planer. Thinking on plan B at this point.

[Old Greenhorn]

Short post as we will be leaving in a few minutes for a campfire and some fellowship with friends, maybe even a drink or two.
 Still another drissly damp snotty day, ut the fella with the planer finally got back to me last night and I went and fethed it this morning. This thing is HEAVY. We laid it down in the traier and it was easy with the two of us, but when I got home, none of my close by helpers was available. I got it off the trailer in the laid down position OK, but when it same to standing it up, well I just tried to lift it and hurt my back pretty good (or bad, I guess). The owner said it weighs over 300# and now I believe him. So AFTER I hurt my back, then I stopped to think about it and I did it in stages with some mechanical help. But it was touch and go, I had the ends of the forks caught in by the very smallest of margins. I have to add the caveat: Kids DO Not Try This at Home!


 

Sorry for the lousy photo, I only stepped away for a few seconds to shoot it and never checked for quality, I was pretty worried about this lift.
 Anyway, I got it set and had to run out and get a matching line cord socket for it. It's 220V, single phase. Come home, wire a drop cord with the socket, hook it into the box, check for voltage and give the machine a quick test. By that time is was nearly 3:30 and I wanted to quit by 5 for a shower and dinner. But my son was in the shop rewiring lights to LED ballasts, so He gave me a hand and we ran about 250 BF or more through it on the first pass to get it all pretty even. Not quite as quick and easy as it sounds. Funny thing about a planer, it tells tells you repeatedly about defects in your milling skills. ;D I also got to notice a lot of wavy and non-square edges, I am going to have to figure a way to address that also I guess. Oh well, I wanted a learning experience and it looks like I have one. The planer works pretty nice and never stalled or bogged.


 

Assuming I can walk tomorrow, I will search for a helper and see how far I can get. Happy New Year Everyone! 8)

[richhiway]

looks like a good planer.

[doc henderson]

good to hear, I thought the planer was tipping over!  and who is the old guy in your shop?   smiley_old_guy :D :D :D  looks like it will be a great place to work.  @Old Greenhorn 

[Old Greenhorn]

Yeah, it's a good planer Richhiway. I am pleased with it, especially as a loan resulting from an accidental meeting. 
 I have had some 'iffy' moves Doc, but I have never dropped a machine yet, this is as close as I've come. Well, there was that one other time, but... Anyway, it works well and I may have a helper tomorrow afternoon not saying who but 'some of us' need some sobering time. ;D I'm a little worried about my back it was screaming all evening, lets see what the morning brings.
 The alleged 'Old guy' you refer to would be me. ;D

[doc henderson]

I bet the grandkids will love the loft, and will have fond memories of working with grandpa in his woodshop.  Sorry but I think you are becoming a woodworker!  there are worse things... although cannot think of any just now.  Best Regards, and happy new year.

[WDH]

He will be buying a planer before you know it ;D..

[Old Greenhorn]

AN odd day today. The last few years we have been home early on NYE either because of winter colds or just because we are getting old and no longer enthused by the festivities preferring a quite evening with just a few friends in good conversation. This year, there was a new couple in the mix and we had some fun meeting up and exchanging conversation and some music. It went late. I was beginning to feel the full effects of tweaking my back pretty well and I took about 1/2 hour to lay flat on their couch and let it relax. While I was doing so, their pup, a lovable/powerful German Shepard decided that as long as I was laying there I could pull on her toy and play with her. She really is a gentle brute of a gal and she pawed at my arm to get my attention. She paws pretty hard.



 
She opened up a few holes and it would not stop bleeding for a while. I guess I am developing that old man thin skin thing. It was no big deal, just embarrassing to be standing there for an hour with a blood soaked paper towel. I finally taped the dang thing on and forgot about it. Wrapped it up more proper when we got home so I didn't get blood on the sheets. I am going to have to think of a good bar fight story for tomorrow at work, because folks are going to see this and ask. I don't want to blame that sweet pup that just wanted to play.

Anyway, we got home late and I didn't get to bed until 3am. I was concerned about the back issues getting worse, so I was in no hurry to get up. I figured rest was good for it whether I liked it or not. Turned out I slept until 11am. I can't recall when I have done that, but I guess I needed it. The back feels a little better today and I think it will heal up fine. But man, I got up really late and it was still overcast and snotty out. I wasn't really motivated and thought I would take the time to think, reflect, and tune up any plans I might have.
 I had mentioned that planing your lumber brings to light all the weaknesses in your milling skills. Last night, even in the haste of trying to get the first pass done on all the boards I did notice that my edges are not square on all boards and some have quite a bit of wave. Yes, I know, if you have a planer (which I don't but there is one sitting in the shop right now), then you really need a jointer. Just on a lark I did some looking on C/L and found one about 50 miles away that appeals to me and is going for $275. I might just pull the trigger on it if it works out. I need to think on it a day or two. I wish I had some income on this stuff to offset these expenses.
 So I am taking  a beat here to figure this out. I could try to rig something up on my radial arm saw to resaw the edges, or I could try to bring them in with the hand power planer, but it is going to be about 500 linear feet of edges or more. I am thinking a jointer is the right thing to do. I could also just live with the edges as they are and try to mate them up as best I can at installation. After all, it is a shop floor, right? But then I thought "wait, you are doing this as a learning experience so why compromise on that, do it the right way." Then there is the FF axiom that keeps repeating in my head "Every process you can add to the wood increases it's value". (Not sure if that was Yellowhammer, Southside, or somebody else, but they are right.)
 ARRGH! This thinking and reflecting stuff is hard. i decided to back up a bit and take my time, as I am working on stuff I have never done before and I don't have a Rabbi (mentor) to help me through it in person. So I went out to the shop and did a second pass on all the boards trying to bring them into the same thickness. One more pass may do it and they are all at exactly 1-1/4" now. Running the planer alone is a little tougher, feeding and catching keeps you busy and works up a sweat. After that I filled another garbage can with chips and reset for the next run. But my back was beginning to make noise, so I took a ride in the Mule to check the woodlot and swap cards in the trail cam. It has been over 2 weeks.
 When I came back in and hung my hat where it sits, I looked at it and realized that the new hat I just got from Bailey's 2 months ago has already been relegated to "work hat".



 

It's no matter. They don't make those crushers like they used to, sad to say. You used to be able to shape some character into them, but now they just take on funky forms and hold onto them. I miss the old crushers, these are just getting too cheap, with a higher price tag.
 Back to work tomorrow and I am already trying to plan the weekends work. :D
 Oh, and WDH, it looks like I may be buying a jointer before I buy a planer. Doc, I may be becoming a woodworker, but I assure you, it is by accident and I will never compare myself to those guys with skills and good tools.

[btulloh]

Can't wait to hear your bar fight story.  Better than trashing the pup's reputation though, and a good chance to spin a yarn.  Should be entertaining for the people at work.   :D

It would be easier to straighten those edges on table saw (with a little help from a jig) than the jointer, even if you had it sitting there.  You do need a jointer one of these days, but it's not the best tool for long 5/4 boards.

Take any kind of board the right length that has a straight edge and screw it to the face of your deck board with the straight edge protruding past the wavy edge.  This serves as a reference to run against the fence.  Set the fence to the the width that will just skim the other edge of your deck board - just enough to straighten it.  Remove the straight edge board and then flip the deck board, set the fence and run it through the saw again.  Now you've got both edges straight and parallel.  You can use anything for the straight edge board as long as it has a good straight edge.  Or rip a piece of plywood or masonite.  Anything will work.  One screw at each end will hold it in place.  

This works well when you don't mind making a couple extraneous screw holes in your target.  Otherwise you can make a fixture out of masonite that goes under the target and has a couple of toggle clamps to hold the victim down.  Not a bad thing to keep around.  

This really doesn't take that long to do this way, and it's going to be easier than trying to run long heavy stuff over the jointer.  I wouldn't want to do this for production, but I use it all the time for straight-lining stock off the mill, and I have two jointers.

[btulloh]

(just a side note - I wish the FF dictionary had the word "jointer" so it would stop giving me the razzzz.    :D :D )

[Old Greenhorn]

Can't wait to hear your bar fight story.  Better than trashing the pup's reputation though, and a good chance to spin a yarn.  Should be entertaining for the people at work.   :D

It would be easier to straighten those edges on table saw (with a little help from a jig) than the jointer, even if you had it sitting there.  You do need a jointer one of these days, but it's not the best tool for long 5/4 boards.

Take any kind of board the right length that has a straight edge and screw it to the face of your deck board with the straight edge protruding past the wavy edge.  This serves as a reference to run against the fence.  Set the fence to the the width that will just skim the other edge of your deck board - just enough to straighten it.  Remove the straight edge board and then flip the deck board, set the fence and run it through the saw again.  Now you've got both edges straight and parallel.  You can use anything for the straight edge board as long as it has a good straight edge.  Or rip a piece of plywood or masonite.  Anything will work.  One screw at each end will hold it in place.  

This works well when you don't mind making a couple extraneous screw holes in your target.  Otherwise you can make a fixture out of masonite that goes under the target and has a couple of toggle clamps to hold the victim down.  Not a bad thing to keep around.  

This really doesn't take that long to do this way, and it's going to be easier than trying to run long heavy stuff over the jointer.  I wouldn't want to do this for production, but I use it all the time for straight-lining stock off the mill, and I have two jointers.

Well I don't have a table saw, but I like your idea and could set up the radial arm saw for ripping and do the same thing. However, I has considered getting (a little) fancy and putting a 10° angle on the edge so that there is some overlap on the boards when I lay them down. I could of course do that as well on the radial arm saw. I'll have to think about that, Thank You for the fine idea.
 And yeah, I have found a few words the FF dictionary doesn't like that are trade specific. I am getting used to it, but it does make me question myself quite a bit. :D

[btulloh]

The redline on misspellings wouldn't bother me so much except I find myself misspelling words I always knew how to spell.  I don't know if it's age, or too many autocomplete things in my life now.  Well --- it couldn't be an age thing . . . :D

A fixture for your circular saw might be easier than running those long boards through your RA saw.  Before track saws were around we used to make up a jig to use with the circ saw.  (I still don't own a track saw . . .  soon maybe . . . )

Take a piece of straight 3/4 lumber maybe 2" wide or so.  Rip a piece of masonite that's just a bit wider than the piece of lumber, plus the distance between the edge of circ saw and the blade (the wide side of the shoe).  Attach the masonite to the 3/4 piece with some screws - maybe 12" apart.  (You can take a crook out of your 3/4 piece while doing this if you need to.)  At this point you've got a fence with a masonite base that should be just a bit wider than your cut line.  Take your circ saw and run it down the fence you created and you've now got a fixture with a fence a straight edge that exactly matches your circ saw cut.

Just sit your victim on a pair of sawhorses, clamp or screw the fixture to it, then run the saw down your new fence and you'll have your straight line.  Plus you don't have to handle the heavy deck boards as much.
 
Not sure that 10 degr bevel is going to buy you much.  In the summer the deck boards may be tight to each other, but for the rest of the year they'll gap a bit and your support will disappear.  Plus the acute edge on top will be a weak spot and want to split when you run a wheel over it.

[WDH]

Well I don't have a table saw....

What? ???

[Old Greenhorn]

Well I don't have a table saw....

What? ???

Yeah, only so much room to work with and I already have the RA saw. Besides, those things are DANGEROUS! Never needed one because I am not a woodworker. (I may have mentioned that before  ;D :D).

[Old Greenhorn]

First day back to work and it was a little nutsy. Got home tired but went out and did another pass on all the boards before dinner, then did another pass after dinner. I am almost there getting all the boards even and learning a bit about operating a planer. It's not easy doing 12 footers alone, but it gives me time and quiet to think.
 I have been bouncing back and forth about getting a jointer or getting a table saw and looking at my wobbly plan for the immediate future. I think I have settled on the table saw to start, but it will consume a lot of floor space. Maybe I can put it upstairs? So I sent an inquiry off to a guy selling one on C/L that seems like a really good deal. We will see if/when he answers me.
 No photos tonight, too tired and nobody wants to see big piles of wood chips anyway, although it was great fun making them. I need to get a snow shovel for inside the shop.

[Ljohnsaw]

Maybe I can put it upstairs?

You need at least 6' before and after the blade.  Eight feet is even better...  BTW, IMO, I think a radial arm saw is more dangerous then a table saw.  But both can do a lot of harm when you get comfortable and complacent.

[Dakota]

If you put your table saw upstairs, every single piece of wood or panel, has to be carried up there to saw it.  I have limited space in my shop.  I bought a table saw that had a good set of retractable wheels(casters) on it, so I could push it into a storage space, out of the way, and wheel it out when I need it.

[Old Greenhorn]

ljohnsaw, any machine will grab you as soon as you make a mistake, saws just happen to grab harder and faster. Truth is when I was in college I had a job working as a company carpenter for 2 different companies in the same building making boxes, crates and fitted skids. I put many thousands of board feet through a 12" RAS and got a flat bed load every 4-6 weeks, plus plywood. I was very comfortable with that saw and never complacent. I would sometimes just cut wood, 9 hours a day, non-stop for 2 or 3 days before I started making the next order of crates. Better the devil you know that the devil you don't right?
 Dakota, I have thought about that very hard and am not done doing so, but the bottom line is making it available to USE, not having it stored away requiring setup every time you want to cut something. Also I am not a woodworker (It says so in my signature lines) and my usage I expect will be fairly low. This loft build project is rare for me and I anticipate my table saw use will be mostly small stuff for rustic furniture builds. Keep in mind, upstairs is a loft, with open sides, shoving wood up there isn't really hard to do.
 As john says this saw requires a lot of room, he doesn't even know it has extended tables on both sides and extended fence guide rails. so it's even bigger. Ground floor space for me is an absolute premium and I protect it with a passion.
 We all have to make choices, right?

[Old Greenhorn]

Well no response from the C/L seller and I sent him another note. Very annoying. Time to work on plan B.
 I spent another hour or two in the shop tonight running the planer, I have lost count of the garbage cans I have filled with shavings. I was trying to get them all even with the thinnest board, but I have gone far enough. Of course as I was planing I was looking at my edges and getting disgusted. I have learned a huge lesson about paying attention to my milling. Some of the narrower boards have side bend (there's a word for that) and I am not sure what to do about that, it's pretty severe. Many of the boards have square edges and I can work with them as is. The ones that concern me are the ones without square edges. Given the prior advice (above) I will see what I can do with the radial arm saw. I guess that is the project for tomorrow. I may cut and screw the first few boards to see how far I get and work the pile down a little to see how much more lumber I might need.
 Well, I wanted a learning experience, looks like I've got one, and THIS is why I am not a woodworker. :D ;D

[richhiway]

why don't you just stack the boards in the mill and edge them? Should be true enough for construction lumber.

[richhiway]

 

 Craftsman Jointer on FB marketplace in Sussex for a good price. I have tha same one works good, heavy duty. Might be worth a ride it's about thirty miles south of Monticello.

[Nebraska]

I whiffed on an online auction  for a jointer two days ago.  Got busy working and missed the close by 1 minute, had already found an after market helical head  for it.  Went for  a couple hundred under what I had in mind. Oh well.

[Ljohnsaw]

I got my 6x36 (maybe more?) Craftsman jointer for free off of CL last year.  Passed up on another free one a couple months later.  I moved up from a 4x24 Craftsman - so nice.  Only problem is now I'd like a 8x48! (then maybe a 12x72...) ;)

[Old Greenhorn]

@richhiway I decided to let the jointer go for now and I am glad I did. Shop space is a real premium. I made and edged my lumber on the mill but a few boards have wave and unsquare edges, not good enough for the flooring material.
@Nebraska Sorry you missed your jointer, I am still pursuing that table saw on C/L but the seller is pretty poor at responding. He finally answered me near noon today, too late for me to get cash, hook up the trailer and go see it, so I asked if we could do it tomorrow in the morning, gave him my number (again) and asked him to call me. No reply as of yet. ARRRGGGHHH!
@ljohnsaw I think you should just jump to the 12x72 and be done with it. :D ;D

So I got started at around 7:30 this morning not sure where I would begin. But I rearranged the shop, stowed the planer and pulled out the RA saw. Started sorting my floor boards and realized not all of them had bad edges, in fact many of them didn't they just had side bend. So I started with the better boards and moved along slowly because I was checking every thing twice. for the boards that had bend I would screw a block down and use a bean clamp to pull it in while I screwed it down. This worked great.


 

I took 15 for lunch and got right back at it. The boards that had wavy or unsquare edges I found I could true up quite a bit with my hand power planer using the edge guide to keep it square. working slow and exercising patience got me some pretty usable results. I screwed up one board which really ticked me off because I thought I was being careful but I just had a brain fart and flipped it the wrong way when I cut the second end. I am coming up short on lumber anyway and will have to mill some more. I expected  that but I had to get some of this completed so I could narrow it down. I still have several boards to fill in as I get closer, but I will still need some more. No big deal. I came in at 5pm to check in with the wife and sat down for a minute. It was at that point I realized I was pretty shot. My hands, back, legs, and shoulders were pretty sore. I nearly fell asleep. I guess 50 or 60 trips up and down the stairs took their toll. It was only a 9 hour day, but I worked non-stop and I guess I am past the days of rolling off the 12 hours stints. It stinks to feel your age.
Anyway. i got about halfway through the floor today which is more than I expected (considering I had no idea where to start when I walked in the shop this morning). I don't have the energy to pick it up tonight again. Tomorrow could be a lost day. The wife wants me to go to town to help with the food shopping, that C/L seller may finally figure out he has to call me if he wants to sell his saw, and I need to find a log (one 10 footer should do it) and do some milling.
Anyway, this is pretty much where I ended up.


 

I figure I need about another 50 sq ft of material to finish the deck. Pretty sure I won't finish it tomorrow. But I did this as a learning experience and mostly what I had in the way of lessons were things i had already read here on the forums. Raise your hand if any of these sound familiar.

1) the more care you put into your milling, the less work you will have bringing that lumber to the next value-added level. (OH BOY! that lesson won't ever leave me now.)
2) Having everything planned out to the final point makes things go much faster without second guessing.
3) doing things correctly and thoughtfully the first time is actually faster than taking short cuts.
4) When one of the 'journeymen' on the forum says 'you might want to consider...' It's time to stop and rethink what you are doing. Much of the advise I was given here I accepted right off the top and just did it. Some I waffled on, and I paid the price (mostly small things).
5) Take care of the small details and there are no big problems. (this one is killing me because I do this every minute of every day at work, but at home, not as much as i should.)
6) When doing flooring, all boards should be exactly the same width or exactly the same sizes in each width. I did some 4, 6, 8, and 10" boards, but did not consider if I had enough of each to do some full length runs. I also varied in some widths by almost 1/4" which is a killer when you are doing flooring. LOTS more work with the planer.

Anyway, it won't be done by my target date (1/5) but I am close. In spite of all the aches, i am enjoying how this is coming out. It is rock solid to walk on. This will help in the operation of the mill and making 'stuff' to sell when I retire. I also have not considered the railing yet, I will need more logs for that too. I have some material from the last loft because I never finished that rail and it will cover at least the front rails which are the main ones I am concerned about. I can't let the grandson's up there until the main rails are on. Now I can cleanly tie the two lofts together, as if I had planned it 2 years ago.
 Progress is being made.
 Learning is taking place.
 Healthy work is being accomplished.

[richhiway]

Looks good. What I was saying was to put the boards you are using back on the mill and take a little off each side. I think you will find it will square them up. Also a lot of boards get a little curve in them when they dry.

you get the wave as you are making the cant and hit a knot or whatever, then all the boards have that wave.

I have noticed that a lot of builders over cut, let it dry then put it back on the mill and cut to finished size.

Keep up the good work. Hope 2020 brings good health.