Rate my hinge

[wildcardab]

Novice here. Cut this hinge then used a plunge cut to work my way back towards the opposite side of the tree leaving a trigger (strap) to cut when I was ready for it to fall. It went where I intended but didn't fall as readily as I was expecting after I cut the trigger (ended up using wedges). Thoughts on how I could improve? Seems like maybe I was too high on the hinge and didn't cut far enough "forward" towards the hinge itself. 




 


 

[Old Greenhorn]

Welcome to the forum. Doesn't look too bad, what you have there. Yes, the hinge could have been less thick, something around an inch and a half max and it is a little out of parallel with the front cut, but that will improve with practice. What I am having a hard time seeing in your photo is it appears that your face cut (the notch) is about 2" lower than the back cut. Am I seeing this right? If so, you want to have them both on the same level and that will also help a little. Which way was the tree leaning? 

[lxskllr]

Looks like you bypassed your cuts on the face, and I'm not sure what I'm seeing on the right side. Looks strange. Stepping up on your backcut can help hold the tree to the stump, but it can also make it harder to wedge over, especially on very straight trees or short spars. I'd also suggest using plastic wedges. Steel works, but it'll wreck your chain if you hit it with the saw.

[wildcardab]

Looks like you bypassed your cuts on the face, and I'm not sure what I'm seeing on the right side. Looks strange. Stepping up on your backcut can help hold the tree to the stump, but it can also make it harder to wedge over, especially on very straight trees or short spars. I'd also suggest using plastic wedges. Steel works, but it'll wreck your chain if you hit it with the saw.

Can you explain what you mean by bypassing the face cut? I had read that the back cut should be slightly higher than the hinge but I think I overdid it here. I also don't know what happened with the right corner. My guess is that since the back cut wasn't parallel that was just the thickest part and didn't break cleanly.

[Old Greenhorn]

Bypassing is when one cut goes past the intersection point with another cut. In a face cut corner, both cuts should meet pretty close.  The angle of the face cut should be 70° or more so the hinge stays connected until the tree is nearly or fully on the ground. I can't see bypassing here, but maybe. Again, there are uses for bypassing cuts, but I can't think of any in a face cut where it will just make things less predictable.
 Having the back cut higher than the face cut means the fibers will bend before they break off as the tree falls. Sometimes this is desired, but not often. As you have learned it gives the hinge more holding power and the purpose of the hinge is controlling direction, not holding back. When this tree dropped, did you have to cut it free of the stump, or did it break off clean? That would be an indicator of how much influence the step cut had.
 Yeah, plastic wedges are much better, even the best cutters hit one once in a while, and if you do get in a bad spot it is nice to know you can cut that wedge if you have to in order to finish a cut. (You should see mine, sheesh!)

[John Mc]

Wildcardab - what part of Vermont are you in?

We have one of the better chainsaw training organizations operating in our state, teaching the Game Of Logging technique (which uses the bore cut technique). Check out Northeast Woodland Training to find when they are going to be in your area. It's a great way to build up the techniques in your tool box.

As far as your hinge, the rule of thumb is to aim for a thickness of 10% of the tree's DBH (Diameter at Breast Height), and cut the notch deep enough so that its length is about 80% of the DBH (longer is OK, shorter risks not having enough to "steer the tree). Sometimes you vary this depending on the species or situation, but it's a pretty good place to start. So for example, for a 15" DBH tree, you'd want a hinge of 1 1/2" thick, and a length of at least 12".

As far as the back cut height in relation to the notch:
Raising the back cut is a hold over from the technique of cutting a very closed notch maybe 30˚ of included angle. Once the tree fell enough to close that notch, it would snap the hinge off (reducing the chance you'd have to go back and cut it off yourself later). To help keep the trunk from kicking backwards during the fall, the back cut was raised a bit to make a ledge that would (hopefully) keep the butt on the stump a while longer.

Generally, the bore cut technique is used with a more "open" notch cut - 70˚ or more of included angle. This means the tree is almost on the ground before the notch closes, so the hinge stays intact almost all the way down, continuing to steer the tree through the fall. So the backcut is made level with the apex (the point of the "V") of the notch. (One exception to this might be when cutting a dead tree, where the hinge may break early, just from flexing, even if the notch has not closed. The ledge offers a bit of protection from the log kicking back off the stump.)

[Old Greenhorn]

@wildcardab when you made your original post I didn't see your location in there. John picked up on it. I also saw your other post about thinning. As John said you are in a licky place, Vermont has a lot of classes around the state. The Game of logging classes will give you a great footing and teach you things you didn't know you needed. Well worth the investment for the small landowner. In addition to John's suggestion, check out Vermont Family Forests, they sponsor a lot of the classes that NWT puts on. Good stuff. Also, look around for a class in Silviculture in your area, I think you would enjoy that.

[John Mc]

@Old Greenhorn  – Where are you from? I live in Monkton Vermont, and Vermont Family Forests is my Forester. I've been friends with David Brynn since back when he was the County Forester walking my land with me in 2002.

[Old Greenhorn]

John I live in the Catskills in NY. I don't know any of the folks at VFF. But when I was looking for GOL classes in our region, these kept showing up in my searches. (GOL 3 is very hard to find, 4 is impossible, but not on my radar right now.) I have family in Southern VT, but most of the classes up there are in the northern half of the state and it was a very long drive for me, so I wait until I can get them around here (within a 2 hour drive), or help 'arrange' a class.
 Anybody in northern VT is lucky to have this stuff so available. They are very good classes and if the instructors are half as good as the one we have in NY, they have a LOT of value.

[John Mc]

I remember now. We spoke about finding a GOL 4 in the past. From that last most, I thought maybe you lived near me. (BTW, NEWT does offer classes in southern VT, they are just up my way in west-central VT more often because VFF sponsors a series every spring and fall.)

[Old Greenhorn]

Yup, we have been here before. :D My only complaint about GOL is they are TERRIBLE about posting their classes. VT does a much better job, but here in NY it is terrible. Even if I contact the instructor directly, he has a hard time giving me a list of where he is teaching what. I only wanted to get to 3, and I have that scheduled for October. SO I am good, but it is a lot of work to find these classes. We have an additional roadblock in NY in that a lot of the classes are reserved for members of that particular organization, and that is a lot of classes. Very frustrating for a single cutter without big bucks.

[wildcardab]

Thanks for the tips @Old Greenhorn and @John Mc !  I'm in Richmond and I've seen the GOL classes posted before over at the VYCC. I found out too late for the last session but I'll keep and eye out for the next. I've heard it's great.

Thanks for the explanation @John Mc . I'll post again w/ results from my next cut. Hopefully we'll see an improvement!

[John Mc]

@wildcardab - I'm just down the road from you in Monkton. Check Vermont Family Forests website Events Page for upcoming GOL classes they are sponsoring (taught by Northeast Woodland Training). They just had a round in April. They'll sponsor another in the fall (I think in October).

Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildife (a non-profit with which I'm involved) is sponsoring a GOL 1 and a GOL 2 class on June 29 & 30 in Calais, which is not too far from you. Last I checked, there were only a couple of spaces left in the classes. You can find contact info to sign up on the Northeast Woodland Training Courses page (I'm not sure if NEWT handles registration or if VT Coverts does, but either fo them can fill you in.)

These classes aren't cheap, but they are much cheaper than a trip to the ER. They have expanded my skills significantly, saving me a LOT of time and effort when working in the woods. (I spent last weekend helping a neighbor get some storm damage cleaned up. I tackled tangled, hung-up trees that really would have had me scratching my head before I went through their classes.)

[wildcardab]

Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildife (a non-profit with which I'm involved) is sponsoring a GOL 1 and a GOL 2 class on June 29 & 30 in Calais, which is not too far from you. Last I checked, there were only a couple of spaces left in the classes. You can find contact info to sign up on the Northeast Woodland Training Courses page (I'm not sure if NEWT handles registration or if VT Coverts does, but either fo them can fill you in.)

This is perfect, thank you!

[Crusarius]

Yup, we have been here before. :D My only complaint about GOL is they are TERRIBLE about posting their classes. VT does a much better job, but here in NY it is terrible. Even if I contact the instructor directly, he has a hard time giving me a list of where he is teaching what. I only wanted to get to 3, and I have that scheduled for October. SO I am good, but it is a lot of work to find these classes. We have an additional roadblock in NY in that a lot of the classes are reserved for members of that particular organization, and that is a lot of classes. Very frustrating for a single cutter without big bucks.

You can contact NYCAMH for the full listing. If it is not posted they are very friendly and will email you the list if you call.

If you go through NYCAMH it only costs $25 per person for the class due to government grants. otherwise it would cost 125 I think?

[Old Greenhorn]

NYCAMH is just as bad, they only post their classes, and sometimes only with a weeks notice. WAC posts their classes, CFA post their classes, CCEGC posts their, NYLT posts theirs. You have to look everywhere. Then you find one, try to sign up, and learn that you are not in the target group and can't take it. There is no central listing. The cost is a small matter, of course I would like to pay $25 instead of $150. but by the time I find a class I can attend, I no longer care about the cost.
 Just for giggles I may try calling NYCAMH and see what they can tell me. They only have one class up now and they don't even say WHAT the class is, so I am assuming it is GOL 1. As I am already on the list for level 3 in October, I can stop looking. Not likely a level 4 will ever run in my region again and that one really isn't for me, except from a knowledge/interest point of view. Not really stuff I could apply. I am looking for a 'Storm Damaged Trees' class if anybody ever hears of one.

[Crusarius]

yea, just call them. I talked to them at a farmshow then ended up calling later and I hosted the class at my house. They have a bunch of classes scheduled but space is limited and classes are very popular.

[John Mc]

The Northeast Woodland Training (NEWT) has offered the storm damage class a number of times here in Vermont. They'll teach a class anytime you want, if you want to pay for it. All you need are 8-10 people who meet the prerequisites (at present, that means they have taken level 1 & 2) and a place to hold it. They generally cover VT. They might consider crossing the line into NY. (If O recall, they are based in Chester, which is in southern VT). I'm not sure if they are limited to a certain area by their agreement with the GOL USA organization or not.

I know VFF is planning on sponsoring Levels 1, 2, and Storm Damage in the fall. That will be in Bristol, VT, which is a bit of a haul from you, Old Greenhorn. (I can recommend some good Bed and Breakfasts in the area, if you are interested - Bristol is a charming town. Middlebury and Vergennes are also nice places to visit in the area.)

Note: the NEWT guys are attending a national meeting of GOL trainers sometime around now. There may be some changes to the training lineup. One rumor I've heard is that some are considering splitting into a land owner track and a professional track. For landowners, Storm Damage Cleanup will become level 4. Pros will have their own version of level 4.

I've always thought level 3 should be a prerequisite for Storm Damage, since the SD cleanup can be a dangerous thing. A landowner who is relatively new to this is asking for trouble diving right into storm damaged sites. Better to have GOL 3 or at least GOL 2 with some substantial experience using a chainsaw in the woods before moving on to SD.

[Old Greenhorn]

Yes, I know that I could arrange a class if I could fill it, but doing so at a location 6 hours from my area would be...problematic. I am nearly positive the GOL instructors can not cross into adjoining territory, they each have a set region or state. None the less I did try last year to set up a joint operation with the local Forestry association that sponsors classes every year. I got a prime location and 5 people for the class and they could advertise it to their members and the public besides. They only requirement was that they work out an acceptable date with the host site. Over 4 months of me calling 'the guy' from the association to get this done and repeatedly giving him contact info for the host site yielded nothing. I explained that this was a 260 acre outdoor education facility with a working full time staff and lots of activity. Dates would have to be coordinated carefully. He waited and waited as the instructors calendar filled up, then when he tried to set dates, he just picked what the instructor had left. He picked the ONE weekend that the entire site was hosting a music festival for 500 people for 3 days. literally the ONLY weekend all year they could not use the site. He never even contacted the site, not did he inform me of the dates until I saw them published. The plan was to level 1 and 2 back to back on the same weekend, so he lost his site for two classes, he also lost on on starting a relationship with this facility that would have showed benefits for both organizations. I am still pretty ticked about it and he still doesn't understand what he missed and why I got mad. I pout all kinds of effort into that deal and it blew up. Not working with that guy again, nor his association.

 On the other hand, the recent Advanced Logger Rescue class that I took came about as a result of me asking here on the FF about access to the class. I don't remember those details, but what I do remember was that @bargemonkey sent me a PM to call him. One thing led to another and Barge setup the class working with the Watershed Council that he has connections with and the instructor whom he knows. Barge hosted the class on one of his cuts, and we had a great experience. SO the lesson is to choose your project partners more carefully than you choose your projects. ;D

 I am glad to hear about the GOL changes, although I never liked the landowner/professional split. Either one makes a mistake and they both wind up dead, so no difference there. OTOH, a guy like me spending a day learning about building mats and cutting in skid roads is not something totally useful either, so yeah, making the content more well aimed as it gets more complex is probably a good thing. For the first two, and maybe 3 levels there is no difference. I don't think they have run a level 4 in New York in several years or more. I could be wrong. I have seen 'pros' in the classes and they can be just as dangerous as Joe homeowner who just bought his first saw at Lowes last night. It always a joy to watch the novice lady cutter out score the 23 year old cocky kid who spends his day in the woods working behind a skidder. ;D

 For now I just check all the sources and keep my eyes open. I am not opposed to driving to VT for a class in SD Trees. but I'll have 2 classes in this year already and that's enough. I already have enough points to re-cert for the next 3 years and my current cert does not run out for another 2.5 years.

[Old Greenhorn]

I just realized that was my 1,000th post. That went by quick.

[John Mc]

I was not a fan of splitting landowner versus pro either. However, as I understand it they are not "watering down" the classes. They are just focusing them more on what the  different groups might  need.  He said they get landowners asking them about storm damage stuff all the time, but most of the loggers they say don't have much of an interest in it.

[Crusarius]

Just FYI. When I called NYCAMH I talked to them about setting up a class. We chose a date and set the location. They took care of the rest. They sent me an insurance certificate. Then they filled the class. If I wanted ppl in the class they needed to call NYCAMH to get in.

The only reason I am posting this is for everyones information because I do not want ppl that want the classes to miss out on them because they thought it was different way to register.

The instructor at my class I hosted was Bill Lindlof (I think thats how I spell it). He did a great job Class was totally worth it. He says he covers all of New England. All the way from PA to Maine.

[Old Greenhorn]

Thanks Crusarius, knowledge is power. If I go through trying to setup a class again I may just try this route based on your good experience. Bill Lindloff teaches all the classes in NYS, yes, I know him fairly well and also know how full his calendar is for the year by the end of January. I may start this cycle all over again this summer, first talking to the host facility, then Bill about dates, then either do it direct with him and the host, or go through NYCAMH. I know Bill carries his own insurance for the classes.

[Crusarius]

I talked to them at boonville then called them after that and had a class setup for december. So scheduled in August put on in december. 

Never hurts to call.