The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Tally-I/O




Author Topic: Attaching the 8x8 sill directly to the slab foundation or a sill plate?  (Read 451 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Malloy5944

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Hello,
I've been reading about Timber Framing for almost two years now on forums (mainly this one) and books. I am wanting to build Jack Sobon's garden shed but I require the floor to be a concrete slab. I want to turn this into my blacksmith shop with out risking burning the entire building down. I have searched the forum for months now and can't seem to find the answer I am looking for so I figured I would ask. 

Do I still lay the 8x8 logs down as a sill and anchor that to the concrete or do I anchor a 2x8 pressure treated sill plate to the slab and lay the 8x8 logs horizontally on top of it. Or do I just skip all that and anchor the posts vertically into the slab like a pole barn? I would be using Ice and water shield as a moisture barrier. 

I really like the look of the 8x8 "sill" as it gives it a more uniform look in my eyes but also uses more timber. 

In my head I am thinking of welding a vertical steel plate to a horizontal steel plate and attaching the horizontal portion to the slab with J-bolts embedded in the concrete. then having the vertical portion insert into the 8x8 about half way and running a bolt through it. I would plug both ends with a dowel and hide the bolt completely.  

Offline Brad_bb

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3893
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Joliet, IL and Indy
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Attaching the 8x8 sill directly to the slab foundation or a sill plate?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2019, 05:41:47 PM »
One big lesson I've learned is to NOT wet set any anchors in concrete if I can help it.  No matter what you do, they never end up in exactly the position you want.  Instead use a system that you can drill the concrete for anchors(after it has properly cured for a couple months), and epoxy those anchors into the concrete in the exact positions you want.  My first frame we wet set simpson straps and that did not work well.  After that we used knife plates anchored to the concrete with epoxied anchor bolts.
Check out this post.  I show the type of knife plates I have been using and what some others have done.
Knife plates
Whether you use a sill or not is up to your preference.  You do not have to use one though if you use knife plates.  One question is, how will you enclose or envelope the frame?  Will it be insulated or non insulated? If you decide to insulate, you may want to build a stud wall envelope.  It will have a 2x PT sill plate. 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Online Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6068
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: Attaching the 8x8 sill directly to the slab foundation or a sill plate?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2019, 08:09:26 PM »
Anchor bolts are readily available up to 14" long. From the formwork you can suspend/hold anchors or other steel in location. Wet setting of any anchor is usually frowned upon or worse by inspectors because it is easy to push the aggregate out of the way and have nothing but cream over the hook.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Malloy5944

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Attaching the 8x8 sill directly to the slab foundation or a sill plate?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2019, 02:25:10 AM »
One big lesson I've learned is to NOT wet set any anchors in concrete if I can help it.  No matter what you do, they never end up in exactly the position you want.  Instead use a system that you can drill the concrete for anchors(after it has properly cured for a couple months), and epoxy those anchors into the concrete in the exact positions you want.  My first frame we wet set simpson straps and that did not work well.  After that we used knife plates anchored to the concrete with epoxied anchor bolts.
Check out this post.  I show the type of knife plates I have been using and what some others have done.
Knife plates
Whether you use a sill or not is up to your preference.  You do not have to use one though if you use knife plates.  One question is, how will you enclose or envelope the frame?  Will it be insulated or non insulated? If you decide to insulate, you may want to build a stud wall envelope.  It will have a 2x PT sill plate.
I haven't decided to insulate or not but as of now I am leaning toward insulating. I haven't really even gone down the rabbit hole of how to enclose the frame. I'm not sure if i want to do cedar shingles or what. Honestly I would like the aesthetic of the Frame being exposed a bit on the outside but again I have no idea if that is practical or possible yet. 

Offline flyingparks

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Ward, CO
  • If my dog doesn't like you, I don't like you.
    • Share Post
Re: Attaching the 8x8 sill directly to the slab foundation or a sill plate?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2019, 09:10:36 AM »
Ah...this question. I too have battled this one. The last two frames I have build I wet set some oversized steel plates into the concrete. Then welded knife plates to these plates. Then attached the posts to these knife plates. So no sills. Not a fan of doing this. Very stressful. I prefer the idea of drilling anchor bolts in after the slab is poured leaving about 9 or 10 inches of bolt above concrete. Rip a 2x10 treated plate down to 8" and put your 8x8 timber sill on top of that. Bore a hole the width of the washer and counter sink your nut and washer in the the timber sill a bit. Should work just fine.

Online Hilltop366

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
  • Location: Nova Scotia
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Attaching the 8x8 sill directly to the slab foundation or a sill plate?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2019, 01:36:11 PM »
I'll add some more questions.

Would a sill beam help spread out the load from the post verses no sill beam and a point load at the post directly on the slab?

Would it change the slab thickness / reinforcement requirements at the edge?

Online Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6068
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: Attaching the 8x8 sill directly to the slab foundation or a sill plate?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2019, 06:25:14 PM »
Yes
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Stuart Caruk

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 473
  • Location: Ridgefield WA USA
  • Gender: Female
  • Woodmizer LX450 DieselStationary timber processing
    • Share Post
Re: Attaching the 8x8 sill directly to the slab foundation or a sill plate?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2019, 12:44:02 AM »
Hands down.... Pour and cure a slab but include a turned down footing or a footing under where you will place your posts. After the slab is cured hammer drill for 7/8" rawl bolts. Laser cut (or use you tablesaw) lexan or acrylic sheet 1/2" thick, with the hole for the bolt. 

Screw on a Timberlinx connector to the rawl bolt. Drill 2 1 1/8" holes in your posts, slip in the wedge anchor and pull the posts solidly don to the concrete with the plastic plate (for a moisture break) in between.

Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Online Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6068
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: Attaching the 8x8 sill directly to the slab foundation or a sill plate?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2019, 10:50:52 PM »
In that book, go to about pg 170, the sketches of Miss Halls school storage barn. There is a 2x sill detail. That is another way although you will need something to provide uplift resistance.

For those following the scarfing discussion, notice the scarf in that sketch.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Jack Sobon Shed on Concrete Foundation... What is a good sill plate to use?

Started by sterling08 on Timber Framing/Log construction

11 Replies
1656 Views
Last post November 21, 2019, 01:48:19 PM
by Malloy5944
xx
Anchoring posts to sill plate

Started by beetle on Timber Framing/Log construction

2 Replies
4825 Views
Last post July 08, 2004, 12:13:33 PM
by beetle
xx
Concrete foundation and sill

Started by Chris Nutbean on Timber Framing/Log construction

18 Replies
2260 Views
Last post January 20, 2017, 09:20:00 AM
by Chris Nutbean
xx
Sill with scarf joints over post foundation

Started by Rait on Timber Framing/Log construction

2 Replies
998 Views
Last post April 01, 2015, 10:41:46 AM
by Rait
 


Powered by EzPortal