Norse/Igland or Farmi/Wallenstein style?

[mike_belben]

nice block.  

[47sawdust]

My snatchblock gets used a lot .
My property is full of obstacles so a change of direction is crucial.
Thanks to Gordon for the gizmo  to hang it from,might be time to bring it into the shop for a tune up

 

[g_man]

@g_man  where can I get that doohickie you wrap the strap around that is pinned to your snatch block? I like that you can wrap the strap around the tree without having to man-handle the pulley around the tree and through the strap loop. Or is that what you made yourself?

You type faster than me 47

I went thru a couple iterations. Like yours probably, mine came with a long strap attached to the block with a 5/8" bolt thru a bushing. It was real cumbersome getting that 13 lb block around a big tree and thru the loop while keeping it at any height. So I got a 5/8" pin and found a shackle at a local actual hardware store, Dad's 4 By in St J, that I could drill out to 5/8". The shackle and pin was much better because I could put a strap, any strap, on a tree w/o all that weight, then pull the pin and attach the block to the strap with the shackle. Used it that way for a long time. Then one day I saw an Igland block and copied their method by welding that nose made from 1/2" rod onto the shackle. Life got even easier. Nothing to take apart and very strong.
gg

[mike_belben]

A loop sling works good.  Just leave it on the block all the time.  Wrap the sling around tree and drop the block through the loop.  If you need shorter wrap it again around the tree.


I made an arborists style adjustable sling for my porta wrap back when i was climbing from 3/4 stable braid or something like that.  One eyelet is finished. The other is adjustable with a lot of slack and a termination knot on the slack so it cant pull through.  You adjust the length and then its like a chinese finger trap when load is applied. Pretty handy.  

[PoginyHill]

@g_man  where can I get that doohickie you wrap the strap around that is pinned to your snatch block? I like that you can wrap the strap around the tree without having to man-handle the pulley around the tree and through the strap loop. Or is that what you made yourself?

You type faster than me 47

I went thru a couple iterations. Like yours probably, mine came with a long strap attached to the block with a 5/8" bolt thru a bushing. It was real cumbersome getting that 13 lb block around a big tree and thru the loop while keeping it at any height. So I got a 5/8" pin and found a shackle at a local actual hardware store, Dad's 4 By in St J, that I could drill out to 5/8". The shackle and pin was much better because I could put a strap, any strap, on a tree w/o all that weight, then pull the pin and attach the block to the strap with the shackle. Used it that way for a long time. Then one day I saw an Igland block and copied their method by welding that nose made from 1/2" rod onto the shackle. Life got even easier. Nothing to take apart and very strong.
gg

Perfect! Thank you.

[Hans2017]

Since there are knowledgeable winch owners of many makes and models.Are there any winches that you can drop the logs from the cab ?
I have a medium size Wallenstien and there is no way with mine.
Not trying to derail this post.

[thecfarm]

I have put the ropes, the one to winch and the one to release the winch, towards the seat a few times. Seem like I was stuck or something different was going on. Only done it a few times, but could be done. 
You would have to put the ropes into the cab each time. Kinda of a bother.

[47sawdust]

Hans2017,
Not trying to be a wise guy but with a radio remote I can drop and pull anywhere from stump to landing w/o leaving my seat.
It can also be done with the ropes and some clever re-routing of the pull angles, especially if you have no rear window.

[Hans2017]

I watched the video of the radio control and figured that would be great. With my skidder drop the logs and get up hills and winch back in all the time. I thought about the rope rigging and it would be tough with mine with the newer type cab.

[g_man]

Hans2017,
Not trying to be a wise guy but with a radio remote I can drop and pull anywhere from stump to landing w/o leaving my seat.
It can also be done with the ropes and some clever re-routing of the pull angles, especially if you have no rear window.

Good overview of your very nice winch 47. How can I see Part 2 ?
gg

[mudfarmer]

Does the radio control allow you to "feather" the winch at all or is it full on/full off with no in between? Is the linkage the same as a rope control?

I have been thinking about using a linear actuator and electric winch remote to get my farmi cordless, looks like it would just need a mount and wiring

[g_man]

Does the radio control allow you to "feather" the winch at all or is it full on/full off with no in between? Is the linkage the same as a rope control?

I have been thinking about using a linear actuator and electric winch remote to get my farmi cordless, looks like it would just need a mount and wiring

I thought about doing that with an air cylinder. I think it would be easier to get the instant off to work. But I never got beyond the arm chair phase. Your electric actuator idea sounds good though - much simpler. Have you thought of how to turn it off quick or do you think slow on/off would be OK ?
gg

[g_man]

Does the radio control allow you to "feather" the winch at all or is it full on/full off with no in between? Is the linkage the same as a rope control?

I have been thinking about using a linear actuator and electric winch remote to get my farmi cordless, looks like it would just need a mount and wiring

I thought about doing that with an air cylinder. I think it would be easier to get the instant off to work. But I never got beyond the arm chair phase. Your electric actuator idea sounds good though - much simpler. Have you thought of how to turn it off quick or do you think slow on/off would be OK ?

Every thing here coated with thick ice this morning.

gg

[mudfarmer]

Does the radio control allow you to "feather" the winch at all or is it full on/full off with no in between? Is the linkage the same as a rope control?

I have been thinking about using a linear actuator and electric winch remote to get my farmi cordless, looks like it would just need a mount and wiring

I thought about doing that with an air cylinder. I think it would be easier to get the instant off to work. But I never got beyond the arm chair phase. Your electric actuator idea sounds good though - much simpler. Have you thought of how to turn it off quick or do you think slow on/off would be OK ?
gg

Thought about the air cylinder as well, for near instant bleed off like you said. But seemed a little more $$ and complicated with solenoid and lack of compressor on tractor etc. Also yes, still in "sitting by wood stove drinking coffee thinking about it" phase!

[g_man]

I was wondering if I could find a little 12 VDC air pump to simplify it ??

gg

[mudfarmer]

Sounds do-able.

Maybe we are over or under thinking it? Tractor has hydraulics already, what about a single acting ram with solenoid valve switched by remote? Could it dump the fluid fast enough, would a return spring help?

[Stephen Alford]

   Great thread , lots of ideas.  To minimize ...stuff... I use a grab. already have chockers of various lengths. For protection if need a piece of tire tube works for me.  Put the chocker around the tree , place the grab then the snatch block.



 

   The winch is hydralic over mechanical. spools in ,spools out and free spools. Just a stiff cable to inside the cab.



 

   The tractor allows the option of a grapple if need be for wood or brush.



 

[John Mc]

I have been thinking about using a linear actuator and electric winch remote to get my farmi cordless, looks like it would just need a mount and wiring

I thought about doing that with an air cylinder. I think it would be easier to get the instant off to work. But I never got beyond the arm chair phase. Your electric actuator idea sounds good though - much simpler. Have you thought of how to turn it off quick or do you think slow on/off would be OK ?

Somewhere I saw a logging winch advertised where the remote was an option. It looked as though they just added a hydraulic cylinder in place of the pull cord, but I was just looking at an advertisement, and couldn't see it well. Unfortunately, that was years ago, and I have no idea of the make of the equipment.

[mike_belben]

air would be easier.  once you have an air tank on your tractor itll just be that much better of a tool.  i have made air compressors from the gold standard york 210 and yes they work great, but are expensive now that everyone knows about it.  i also made one from a jeep cherokee 4.0 AC compressor and that worked fine too, and can still be free.  i ran mine for 30 minutes at a time running a diaphragm trash pump and had to spritz it with water from a hand sprayer to keep from boiling/seizing but thats after it has run 120+ psi for over 10 minutes. air winch control will hardly have to run at all unless you have leaks.  

AC compressors can go up to more PSI than your air line or tank can hold.  when i really, really cant bust a lug with my 1 inch impact, i hook up to the homemade high pressure portable york 210 compressor with a 30ish gallon tank and short, checkless 1/2" line and something is gonna get spun off without any questions. its the highest air supply i own, from trash.  it does what my 10horse power 3 phase 100g compressor could not do. once you have that on your tractor you wont go back.  

doing it with hydraulics would be a lot more expensive for no reason.  it does not require the pressure of hydraulics, but does require the expensive valves, hose and filtration and return because your system has that much pressure that must be managed and the working fluid cant be dispelled. with air you are at low pressure, dont have to collect the waste, dont have to safety regulate the pressure, have wire hoses and fittings or daisy chains of cascading power beyond pressures in each valve.  you can plumb 100 air devices in parallel and dump the exhaust to atmosphere.  its a very elegant solution.  

hydraulics also does not give you a new dimension of use to your tractor.  it would just make the winch work remotely.  put onboard air and a carryall with a toolchest and a retractable air reel and big tank, now you have an offroad service truck.  add some long cables and its a jumper box tow truck.  add another alternator and its a welder too.  they cost enough, why not have them do the maximum for us in return?




 

[47sawdust]

john mc- see reply #104

gman-cue the video then click on my initial M, that will take you to part 2

mudfarmer- when unspooling the toggle can be released after about 10 seconds and cable will continue to free spool on its own.Turn the toggle off to stop the feed.
When winching the toggle must held to pull, releasing automatically stops the pull.
I love the remote for limbing as I can get to a safe spot and index the log forward to limb.
I have even ridden a large log back to the tractor when feeling young and snorty (once)

[mike_belben]

this is how to do a Cadillac system.  i could probably go into my junkpile and build it for $200 or less, but i think all new with someone elses debit card i could be under $500.  remember this isnt big money hydraulic hoses and valves.  its plastic air line and 18awg speaker wire and cheap valves and remote.  

i show the 12vdc solenoid valves as individual and that would work but i would buy a 3 gang valve block.  theyre pretty available.  1/4" hose, pushlock fittings from SMC company on ebay used keyword "MRO" usually finds them cheap.  bimba double acting air cylinders with spring returns and open mufflers.  on the throttle control cylinder i drew an adjustable muffler.  the little fart cloud fittings are air exhausting through a muffler, which is just a brass filter.   the one adjustable muffler is so it doesnt back the throttle off so quickly the machine stalls.  adjustable inlet and outlet is just how you control the speed of an air cylinder, and you can control both directions of the stroke.  well, you can slow them both.  not speed them up, that is relative to air supply.  uncontrolled would be full speed stroke which is really fast. much faster than hydraulics. air is the opposite of hydraulic, its too fast so all you are ever doing is trying to slow it. thats what SMC controls do.

i drew the system staged for the throttle to come up before the winch starts engaging- also not to stall the machine.  this could be any restrictor really. air pressure in the green circuit will drop when allowed to fill into the throttle up cylinder, so that moves first and then the other portions build up pressure and start to move.  

the handheld remote is any amazon chinesium winch remote.  its just a pair of remote control switches.  you only need one wire to engage the winch and then springs kick it off so it is a fail safe control design.  if it dont work the winch is mechanically kicked out of coupling and tractor returns to idle.  it only revs up, pops the brake off and couples to the PTO if the system is working.  the extra button and extra solenoid position i figured hey, stick an old truck air horn on there for letting people know youre gonna pull or that youre needing help.  wear the fob around your neck and youll never lose it.

the green shows constant air.  the orange shows 12vdc circuits. the blue shows actuated air from the manual switches in cab (clippard air toggle switches, excellent) and the highlighter yellow shows actuated air from the remote.  the incab portion does not rev up, since you are there, and it gives you control of the brake and drum so that you can unlock the cable to drop a hitch and pull up then reel it in where terrain is too difficult or you need to make a turn, etc.  

i did a simplified version of spring return symbols and plumbing.  the springs and adjusting will be the hardest part to get dialed just right.  if it were me i would design the spring return portions to have adjustable spring preload seats such as threaded rod with a valve spring retainer seat between two jam nuts on the threaded road that can be moved.. or for compression springs i would use threaded rods for eye mounts.  this way you arent trying 30 springs and bending them and all that. get the spring close then dial in the seat.  as it wears just make a little adjustment to stay working smooth.  

[g_man]

All good stuff Mike. You think of every thing. Plenty of info there to think about and work with . Thank you !!

gg

[mike_belben]

thanks Gman. i used to design/fab simple air cylinder systems like this that had to run 3 shifts a day with operators standing right next to them.  its a very cheap, simple, reliable medium.  

[mudfarmer]

Well $500 is laughable on my budget for a remote control winch and already have a pintle hitch off-road service trailer that can be pulled by tractor, utv or truck,don't  want to turn the tractor into a service vehicle. Definitely don't need anything that runs 3 shifts a day,  I just cut back to two shifts  :D But I do have a few short stroke air cylinders and a 12 pack. Thanks for the pep talk

[mike_belben]

Tell me about it, ive got like 3 bucks. Good thing money is mommas job and all the others are mine.

Ive got a pile of electric winches here from trades now.  Theyre better than no winch, and are all remote control.