Best Choice for simple cabin build

[CJ5]

I am looking to build a few small (12x14) cabins on my property. I am to old to for tents but the main cabin house is still a way off. I have 80 acres of mixed hardwood; oak, poplar, beech and some scattered pine stands.

My initial thought is pine logs using butt and pass construction with simple slant roofs. Using logs, because...logs! It would also seem cheaper and easier than frame construction since it eliminates having to do interior and exterior wall coverings.

I would also like to cut, saw and build without waiting months for drying, etc.

Is pine the best choice? Could I do Poplar? Beech are too big for log construction but may be an option to cut one for flooring or interior wall covering slats.

If I go pine/poplar could I simply have two sides squared, then stacked? Or would I need 4 sides cut like long cants? What would be the size I am looking for; 4", 6"?

I have a sawmill not far, and need to ask them but will start here first so I dont look so dumb and maybe having a portable guy come in is a better option. 

Thanks for any responses.

[1938farmall]

I'm planning to do something similar this spring.  If you pin the log courses will you drive rebar with a clearance hole in upper log to allow settling?  Will you be up on piers & do a floor deck to start the log walls, or some other way to build a floor?  Hoping for some ideas also.

[Don P]

All things being equal, shrinkage is largely related to density. Pine is the lowest density of the choices and will shrink less.

All things are not equal, some species while drying as a timber tend to form one large major check while others tend to form more scattered smaller checks. Poplar although close to pine in density tends to form one whopper, stick your hand inside sized check. There are of course many old poplar log cabins but that is what they do.

James Mitchell's "The Craft of Modular Post and Beam" might be worth checking out.

[CJ5]

I am thinking a std 2x8 PT frame and joists for the floor, cover in ply and then a flooring.

To bring into saw milling focus, if I need 6" squared two sides, what is generally the min diameter of logs I harvest?  Is there a size I could get two "beams" in one log? Am I off base and need to square 4 sides?

[jeepcj779]

  You will need about 700 linear feet of 12 inch logs per cabin for 12x14. The type of building you are doing will determine the effect that taper will have. If you are scribing the logs, taper is OK. If you are milling the logs, you will be taking the taper out at least on the surfaces where the logs are stacked. You will have to account for shrinkage of about 1 inch per foot of log wall in your building technique (depending on species). The main check that forms in each log will be where the distance from the outside of the log to the pith is shortest. That can be controlled by putting a kerf where you want the check to form down the length of the log between the notches. There are places to buy specialty materials for log construction like log spikes, through bolts, insulation between the logs, etc.
  I recommend you buy and read a couple books on log construction before you decide what to do. Also, if you determine you don't have 3500 linear feet of straight logs on your property, you could look into one of many companies who will kiln dry and mill to a d-log profile with long grooves for you at between $4 and $5 a linear foot for a 6x8 (about $15,000 for 5 cabins worth). An alternative is to buy a mill ($5,000 - $10,000) and something like the Norwood moulder/planer ($5,000), or find someone who has one, and try to mill your own.

[CJ5]

Thanks, CJ7...72CJ5 and 81 Chief here ;D ...and a 15 Grand, if that counts

I am reading as much as possible. I have a forest and want to take advantage of it and minimize out of pocket.

[1938farmall]

Will you lay your 2x8PT frame & joists right on the dirt?  Assuming your reason for liking the butt&pass method is to get something built quickly, I would think you could just saw the logs on 2 sides and stack them up.  the height of the courses could vary depending on size of logs available as long as all logs in the course are equal.  I was planning to leave about 6" flat on the logs for stacking and bevel the reveal part of the log below for water run-off.

[Mooseherder]

I have a similar dream of doing what you are attempting.   Having Pressure Treated underneath the living area floor though wouldn't be my first choice.

[Banjo picker]

 

 

 I sawed these logs for a customer.  He did a nice job with them.  Best I remember they are cut to 4 inches.  Not your but and pass system....Banjo

[CJ5]

I would put the floor frame on blocks or stone.

Moose, why not PT under living area and what would your first choice be?

I am trying to get a decent cost effective cabin to a replace sleeping in a tent. I have bigger better plans for a long term dwelling. 

A 2x4 stick cabin may be just as easy and then just saw interior and exterior siding to make it look like a forest dwelling. I guess a could still use my own timber. Would I save anything having my own sawn versus buying?

[Mooseherder]

The concern with pt is the smell and possible long term effects on health.  Also can't stand the smell of a particle board building.
 I would use Cedar, tamarack or spruce for the foundation.  It would be under cover and off the ground mitigating rot concerns.  My main concern would be getting the roof system right in regards to insulation and rodents out.  I have a non- insulated cabin someone else built.  I get to fix and level the cabin every few years because of improper ground work I inherited.  Stick built would a lot faster than log.

[samandothers]

You had asked earlier about getting two 6x6's out of a log.  An issue with this is you may split the pith or at least have the 6x6 off one side.  This can cause the 6x6 to bow.  It may be more stable to center the heart.  If you desire a 6x6 the diagonal measure corner to corner is the square root of 72 or about 8.5 inches.  I would want a log where the small end is at least 9 to 10".  If the have some sweep you may need more diameter.  I have worked through some of the math but have not done this and actually cut timbers but seems this is reasonable.  I would also consider the bark and sap wood which may cause you to go a bit bigger.  

Some food for thought.

[Don P]

Just some foundation thoughts after many years of digging under old houses.

As far as fixing and relevelling goes, pier foundations have a long and colorful history of failure which is why building codes now require an engineer for them. They have kind of proven their worth. Yes, every one can point to examples that have stood the test of time, some are well done, some are lucky, none are sonotubes and yet that is the comparison everyone seems to want to make. Just bear it in mind when doing a foundation, it is one of the more time consuming things to replace if it fails, it is generally false economy to skimp there.

 Food for thought, in a line of 3 piers the middle one takes twice the load of the outer ones. Pretty much everyone I see foots them all the same and does not know the load on any of them, if they know enough to use footings at all, I wonder if they will settle and if so will it be equally.

A building is a sail or long lever with a force on it. A pier has a poorly designed connection to the floor system, basically a pin, and loose fill around it to brace it upright. Generally a pin connection between pier and footing. Will this remain upright in a strong storm. An engineer friend calls this a failure mechanism.

Treated lumber is required if joists are closer than 18" to grade or 12" for beams and girders, all other wood closer than 6" to grade. You can isolate the treated from the indoor environment. Although this gets a lot of press, typically there are other far nastier things we bring into our abodes and live with without a thought.

[Bandmill Bandit]

 

 
Those are spruce pretty much boxed heart 6" X 9" with a 1" chink space. Made very nice cabin. 3 more scheduled for this summer for this customer. Total lenght is 22'. Cabin is 17' x 13' exterior measurement. 

[Andries]

Some comments;
 - You're in AL, so bugs and rot are going to be considerations. Design with generous roof overhangs to get water away from the walls and foundation. If the oaks are big enough, use them because they have the best rot resistance.
- If you go with milled wood (easier to build with and lasts longer than whole log walls), the quick way to figure the size of the log is the "half again" rule. To get a 6" cant, you'll need a 9" log, if the log is dead straight.
- People tend to under estimate how long they'll be kicking around or how much younger family members will use what what we build. Think long term. Cement piles or pads, wood preservative on the exterior, metal on a steep roof. 

Build it once, and done.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I have never built or plan on building a log cabin (although I do live in a log home). Andries beat me to the 50% or 2/3's rule (Starting log Diameter needs to be 50% bigger than beam sized desired or a SED  straight log will square out about 2/3 of the diameter - same thing said different ways). I also agree a stick built cabin can be built much faster and probably more efficiently.  For 12'X14' I still think you can build the floor then build the wall framing and 2 people should be able to raise and hold it up till temporarily secured, then put the siding on just like my bus stop project on a larger scale. You can buy or build the trusses and put them in place. I built a 16' wide X 24' boat house with prefabbed trusses and they were pretty easy to put up. I measured and put metal connectors/hangers up and just slipped the trusses in them. Good luck.

[CJ5]

Great replies, thanks so much. it sure seems like a lot of tree's even for a small cabin. ;D

Bandit, that like what I have in my minds eye. Could you give more details on the floor/foundation? And roofing plan?

[GAB]

CJ5
Some KOA campgrounds have some rental cabins in them.
Maybe if there is one near you with cabins you might be able to make arrangements to look at and study.  
Even if you have to rent it for a day it might be worth it.
GAB

[Bandmill Bandit]

Great replies, thanks so much. it sure seems like a lot of tree's even for a small cabin. ;D

Bandit, that like what I have in my minds eye. Could you give more details on the floor/foundation? And roofing plan?

Send me a PM with contact details and I can either call you or you can call me. These are for an Air B&B that is located on the west bank of the North Saskatchewan River. Ill go grab a few more pictures now that the steel roof is on and the door and windows are in. 

The foundation is a modified oil field mud tank skid so they can be moved with a geeped oil feild heavy rig hauler. There are 4 x 6" Screw Piles driven to 6' depth at the 4 corners of each cabin pad that the skid gets bolted too with 2 x 1" by 3" long grade #8 bolts. They wont move any time soon but this method allows for relocation with very little work. 

Logs were average 13" to 14" small end diameter to give 50% + over margin  and they were nice and straight. We did a test run for finished log sizing and found that sizing of 6" x 9" with a 1 inch chink made the most sense and looked the best.
 
These are most of the pictures I have of the project in progress.



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

[samandothers]

Like those joints and log profile so they shed water.  Very nice.

[luap]

I did what you are proposing except just one, not multiple. It is 10x15 inside dimension with a 4 foot porch deck. I wanted it done in one summer, so no time for drying, etc. I made D logs  5x6" rounded on one side. I had aspen, spruce and red pine. Spruce was the preferred wood because it was the most stable and the lightest. The logistics of getting the trees ,peeling the bark and sawing, fitting, joining the corners is all very time consuming. I used the half dovetail corner as shown by bandmill bandit and spray foam is my chinking as my gap is 1/2 inch or less. It sits on a floating pier foundation with the roof 1" lumber covered by metal. I used lots of caulking when the roof boards were laid down and in the corner joints. I have a wide eave overhang so there is no water splash on the bottom logs from the drip edge. I filled the ends of the roof peak with steel wool. It has stayed dry with no mice or creepy crawlers. The floor was built inside the bottom row of logs. I had to redo the front door once as I didn't allow for enough settling. I did use pole barn spikes in the corners and some of the aspen bowed a little but acceptable. I had a hydraulic boom on a trailer for setting logs as I was a one man show-no help. So I put it together in my yard, dismantled, move to the woods and reconstructed. Other than cutting some trees the previous winter, it was all done in one summer. the only thing I would do different is use all spruce and leave rounded on two sides because the flat edges don't line up any way and the rounds are more eye pleasing. my post icon thumbnail is the cabin. Just this last year I gave the logs a coating of used motor oil.

[Hackeldam Wood Products]

I think a log cabin is a lot more work then post and beam with board and batten or live edge siding. Is insulation important to you?

I would get a lumber list together and have a portable mill come and cut it for me. (I did this before getting my own mill) It is a lot off work to haul all that material back and forth. If you are going to build multiple buildings it would pay you to get your own mill from one of the good companies that support this page. Woodmizer has a lot of stories on their site of cabin projects.

This picture is a small post and beam 10X16 that I cut with a logosol csm. The plan came from Jamaica

 Cottage shop, you can find them on line. It sits on 16ft hemlock 6X6 with a pressure treated 2X6 glued and screwed to the bottom placed on leveled concrete cap blocks.. This or using posts keeps your floor system off the ground. The floor system is 2X6. I cut everything except the pressure treated and 3/4 ply for the subfloor.

[Bandmill Bandit]

That is a nice cabin Rich.

Post and beam is a good way to go too but the log method is definitely easier when you have the help to set the logs. I have done it both ways and find the log method quicker and less complicated. 

The milling of all material took 2 days. Prep, notching, staining and building rafters took 1 week by one person and the skid was a day for the welder. We did the subfloor, walls and rafters in one weekend. Roof, door window, wiring, pluming on another weekend. Mostly 3 people working those weekends and the owner did any prep work week day evenings after the work day was done. 

I'd say the total time to complete was about a 1/3 less for the Log system. 

R10 is approximate insulation value of a 6 inch spruce log. A good chink seal is the critical factor for that value.  Roof has 4 inch styrofoam under the tin  and 5/16" pine tongue and groove paneling interior cieling. Floor has R20 glass between joist with 1/2" treated plywood on the gound/bottom side of the floor. The floor joist are 3"X 8" spruce on 24" centers. Floor is 4"x 7/8" tongue and groove aspen that is supposed to be in the kiln right now IF the guy has got caught up to our load. Floor is the last job.             

[Don P]

Someone mentioned the KOA kits, this is their supplier;
http://www.pkscabins.com/

I don't think anything is faster than conventional stick frame, but speed isn't everything.

Bandmill, are you using a edm tracer with your jig or are you eyeing it?

[Bandmill Bandit]

Conventional stick is fast but so is a tent and about as aesthetically and nostalgically edifying.

a few pics of the 99% finished cabin;

Furniture under construction in the shop and stove is ordered.