No more IKS bits

Sawyerfortyish · March 12, 2005, 08:41:46 AM

Just called up my mill supply place to get more saw bits. I've been useing the IKS bits because they were a little cheaper than simonds but now like every other time a company goes up against simonds they buy them out or merge. I use to get R hoe & co bits but guess who bought them out. I don't have anything against simonds saw bits But a little compitition is sometimes a good thing to keep your prices in check. Just got a price of 116.00 a box for bits. Anyone getting a better deal anyplace?

Jeff · March 12, 2005, 09:06:09 AM

A little competition was a real good thing. Not so much for price in my book, but quality. Simonds bit quality has taken a nose dive in recent years. I tried them all over the years, and always came back to simonds. I think the problem is that simonds might simply be putting thier name on stuff produced by the companies they took over. Either that, or now that they are the only source, they dont give a rip.

HORSELOGGER · March 12, 2005, 09:06:56 AM

This guy regularly runs boxes of bits for sale on ebay, both carbide and steel. The steel bits usually go for 80 or so bucks a box, 9/32. This is a listing for carbides, at 175 bucks, which is way cheap. You can email him privately and he will sell you http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42937&item=3880659785&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVWa box of steel bits.

sawhead · March 12, 2005, 10:29:35 AM

I am almost sure that hoe was not bought by Simonds, rather they were bought by Jacobson.http://www.pacific-hoe.com/

Ron Wenrich · March 12, 2005, 04:15:40 PM

IKS bought out Hoe. IKS was a Canadian firm and was about the only competition that Simonds had. They bought them out and now have a monopoly on circle saw bits. And I bet you thought monopolies were illegal.

Quality control has always been a problem at Simonds. They are producing bits at the other plants. But, IKS bits always seemed to be the same. Very little variation. Simonds can be too hard or too soft. Quite often they aren't sharpened right. They hook off to the left or right. Sometimes it takes a while to get them to where they cut good. Not what I expect from a new tooth.

Jeff · March 12, 2005, 04:29:14 PM

In years past I always found Simonds bits to be more consistant, but at the mill right now I have probably half a box with defects. Not ground straight, not ground at all, ground with a bigrolled bur on them, undersized and fall out, over sized and wont go in, wide widths, you name it. To be fair, its taken a couple years to collect the rouge bits, but to be honest, I went for years before with out ever find ing one. Thats why in the past, I would not use Hoe, because I always found them to have poor quality control. Now, there is no choice but one.

Sawyerfortyish · March 12, 2005, 07:32:39 PM

Has anyone tryed those one piece bit and shank from saw claw? They look expensive.

Sawyerfortyish · March 12, 2005, 07:45:04 PM

Just went to the saw claw website 8.00 a tooth sold in boxes of 12. So it would cost me 384.00 to change my teeth

. Well I guess I don't have a choise I'll stay with simonds >:( until something else comes along.

Jeff · March 12, 2005, 07:55:43 PM

I sure would love to try them. I bet they do cut much truer lumber. You would have to probably go with thier sharpener too though. They figure the life is 2 years with 20 retips and over 200,000 bf per retip for debarked logs.

Bro. Noble · March 12, 2005, 08:55:53 PM

You might want to check out www.ozarkmachinery.com for bit prices. Thats where we get ours.

They recently found out about the forum and were encouraged to look in on us with the possibility of sponsering us. Maybe a few inquiries would help them decide. Tell them you heard about them on www.forestryforum.com. ;)

They got lots of neat logging machinery as well as sawmills and all kinds of supplies. I think most of it's listed on their website.

Ron Wenrich · March 12, 2005, 09:57:14 PM

My saw doc says to steer clear of saw claws. Every time you change shanks, you should have your saw hammered. That would mean every time you change teeth, your saw would have the potential to performing badly. That's why they never caught on.

HORSELOGGER · March 12, 2005, 10:42:08 PM

Is your saw doc Casey Kraemer, Ron? I put a set of sawclaws in, and they were real nice, just hissed on through and cut smooth, till I hit metal :( At 3 bucks a piece to retip , plus shipping each way, well, they are in a box on the shelf.

sawhead · March 12, 2005, 11:29:40 PM

I would respectively disagree concerning IKS buying out hoe saws http://www.pacific-hoe.com/about/index.htm and they still sell bits and shanks also.

Sawyerfortyish · March 13, 2005, 08:49:14 AM

I tryed carbides once and if you don't debark your logs they arn't worth a hoot. Sawed about 3 or 4 logs and the corners of the bit were so chipped the saw would run. I figured they were made for debarked logs. So I use regular bits.

Ron Wenrich · March 13, 2005, 10:30:20 AM

No, my saw doc isn't Casey Kreamer. He helped in the development of the saw claw and the grinder. He later backed away from it when problems came up.

My undestanding of Hoe is that they sold their inserted tooth making division to IKS. My saw doc used to sell Hoe, then couldn't get them and told me that IKS bought their tooth facility, not Hoe itself. Next time I see the saw doc, I'll see if I got the story straight.

I used to use chrome teeth on my headsaw. Due to excess trash metal, I didn't find them to be very economical, so I went back to standards.

Jeff · March 13, 2005, 10:33:47 AM

Ron, that is the same story we got here from our saw shop.

If you go to http://www.simondsinternational.com/ you will see the IKS web listed as one of the Simonds websites. That does not answer the hoe question though...

Sawyerfortyish · March 13, 2005, 11:46:14 AM

If you go to the hoe website listed above they offer no info under products they sell for bits and shanks

Jeff · March 13, 2005, 11:54:46 AM

Actually, they do.

http://www.pacific-hoe.com/products/supplies/bits.htm

but it looks like the website was last updated spring of 2004?

sawmill_john · March 13, 2005, 12:09:45 PM

The story with Pac-Hoe, is Simmonds sued them and the settlement was that PacHoe was to sell all of the bit @ shank manufacturing to simmonds who shut down the plant here in Portland. I was buying bits & shanks form Pac-Hoe at that time, all the specs were sent back to Fitchberg and the Pac-Hoe bits & shanks are sold under the "American" brand the size specs on the "3" pattern shanks are slightly different, I struggled for 6 months to get them to make the oversize ones so our customers could get an oversize that actually fit. I have found the Simmonds bits to be more brittle. Two years ago I switched over to IKS because of price almost 10% less, then last year I got the word the some thing was going down, now I'm back to the only maufacturer that makes those bits "Simmonds-International". Pac-Hoe is still in business here in Portland, OR they make blades both circular and band.

John

Buzz-sawyer · March 13, 2005, 12:27:24 PM

Well this news is rather disconcerting, I switched tio IKS back in 2003 , while attending the St Charles forsetry expo, were among other things of interest I met Ronwood, Bibyman, Tammy Jeff and spent a whole lot of doe, Anyway

You dont want to know how many bits I had to buy to get this :D :D :D

I bought chrome bits and I have cut quite a few (3)nails one side ways,and been able to finish the day out in white oak,
I found them uniform , and they fit into place tightly.
I probably saved enough money too that I was hooked.