How would you saw this SYP?

kelLOGg · March 13, 2020, 04:30:03 PM

I need 1 x 12s. The pith is perfectly centered at the 17 inch small end and at the big end it is at 12" and 7" (horizontally) and centered vertically at 9.5". There was about 2 ft of butt flare up the log which I cut off. Levelling the pith will be wasteful. Cutting horizontally the pith will be contained in a few boards but at a diagonal and not in the center of them. Cutting vertically the pith will pass through the faces of the boards. I'm inclined to cut the 12" face of the 1 x 12 vertically. If that will that will give me bow I can live with that; I prefer that to crook. Any advice welcome.

Magicman · March 13, 2020, 09:23:32 PM

I would make the first face opening as it lays and then turn it 90° after each of the face openings. The saw through would be from the 4th face opening which would give you boards that would tend to bow rather than crook. For boards that would tend to crook, turn it 90° before making the first face opening.

kelLOGg · March 14, 2020, 07:10:32 AM

I think we are saying the same thing but you said it much clearer. See pic. The nos. are the order of face removal and hopefully the saw-through produces more consistent thickness than I did with the pic. ;D

Magicman · March 14, 2020, 09:16:28 AM

Exactly, but my laptop screen does not have magic marker lines on it like yours does. ;D

kelLOGg · March 14, 2020, 09:57:37 AM

It's a little known high tech app :D

Thanks for your replies, Lynn.

Sixacresand · March 14, 2020, 11:24:32 AM

Ideal log but would be better for 1x12's if bigger. I figured the yield would be two or three full length 1x12's. The others would be shorter. Lots of narrower lumber. The Photo markup is exactly how I would do it.

Magicman · March 14, 2020, 11:46:26 AM

Quote from: kelLOGg on March 14, 2020, 09:57:37 AMIt's a little known high tech app

OK, so now I know how you did it, but the stores were out of cleaning supplies and I have nothing to get the marks off of my screen with!!

Andries · March 14, 2020, 11:57:14 AM

Quote from: Magicman on March 14, 2020, 11:46:26 AM
Quote from: kelLOGg on March 14, 2020, 09:57:37 AMIt's a little known high tech app
OK, so now I know how you did it, but the stores were out of cleaning supplies and I have nothing to get the marks off of my screen with!!

Man, the chaos that DanG virus causes has no limits! ;) :D

Andries · March 14, 2020, 12:14:40 PM

Getting back to the OP . . .
The wise folks agree that cutting on the vertical will result in 1x12" boards with bow.
Likewise, there's agreement that cutting on the horizontal will tend to give boards with crook.
Could someone please explain how you were able to predict that?
I'm not questioning the call - just wanting to develop my own 'superman x-ray vision' skills. ;D

Magicman · March 14, 2020, 12:35:40 PM

Actually when sawing "egg shaped" logs which will have off centered piths, I have found that this is the only way for me to saw them and realize any useful yield from them and prevent getting a whack of propellers. Notice when turned this way the pith is ~centered top to bottom.

Log laid with egg horizontal. The red crayon marks are for illustration.

First face opened and ~1½ cuts made down to the cant target.

Log rotated 90°. Second face opened and 1½ cuts made down to the targeted cant. (Red line on the right.)

Log rotated 90° and the third face opened. 1½" cuts made down to the targeted cant, and then the cant was split into three ~5½ cants for 2X6's. The camera angle makes it look like the bottom cant is thinner but it was not. All were equal.

The 4th and final 90° turn, 4th face opened, and the saw through.

These 2X6s' will tend to bow but not crook. Since SYP is stable, there will be no propellers/twisted lumber from the top and lower quarters, which are rift sawn.

Andries · March 14, 2020, 12:55:52 PM

Thanks for the detailed answer, MM.
I see how you are milling the log so that each 2x6 has one grain pattern in it.
Each 2x6 has mostly flat sawn, rift or quart sawn grain.
-
But with 12" wide boards and that sized log, having similar grain across that wide board would be impossible, wouldn't it? Good thing that SYP is stable!
Also, what is it you see in the log that has you predicting bow rather than crook in the 12" boards?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Magicman · March 14, 2020, 02:08:11 PM

I am not necessarily seeing anything other than knowing that boards sawn from the hump or horn sides of a log will tend to bow, and boards sawn from the sides will tend to crook. Just the way the uneven wood grain runs through the board. Tight grain on the horn side and wide grain on the hump side.

Andries · March 14, 2020, 05:01:58 PM

Got it, thank you sir.

kelLOGg · March 14, 2020, 05:29:31 PM

I got eleven 1 x 12s from the log - 2 had an acceptable amount of bark on one edge. So I am pretty pleased with it.

My take on sawing SYP with uncentered piths is to rotate the log until the piths are oriented vertically, i.e., one is high and the other is low. Then center the log on the geometric center. Open the faces so the cant gives the lumber width available and saw through. The first pic shows the cathedral grain fairly centered on the board which means that the pith is also centered left to right so such boards will not crook but are prone to bow. (All 11 boards showed the same cathedral pattern location).

If I had rotated the log so the piths were oriented horizontally the cathedral grain would be diagonal along the length of the board (as would the pith) and the lumber would crook. (I think - someone (MM?) check me out on this and all the above). I've never tried this because I think it would be a waste of lumber.

The rest of the pics show a pretty pleasing stack of lumber. Tomorrow I edge.

Andries · March 14, 2020, 07:27:33 PM

good looking lumber Mr Kellog!
I thought that the pith was pretty much centered on the ends of that log - for the logs that I see anyway! :D
Rolling the log for pith centres lined up vertical, then centering the middle makes a bunch of sense. . . . and the cathedrals lining up with the centre of the boards confirms it.
I can work with that, Thanks!

WDH · March 15, 2020, 08:32:12 AM

You kept the rings "balanced". That is key for wide boards.

jb616 · March 16, 2020, 11:48:15 AM

"Log laid with egg horizontal. The red crayon marks are for illustration." @Magicman can i buy you a different color crayon? I cannot see the difference in Red / Brown....Colorblind.

Magicman · March 16, 2020, 02:12:48 PM

There wasn't much crayon anyway so you didn't miss anything.

Lets see, I seem to have several colors to choose from. ;D

doc henderson · March 16, 2020, 02:44:31 PM

I love the box! ;)

Magicman · March 16, 2020, 06:14:46 PM

Oh so you love the Crayon Box, eh??

End view.

Showing the detail of the corners and lid.

The is probably only one other FF member that would remember the box and know where it came from.

doc henderson · March 16, 2020, 07:27:59 PM

ebay has some from 20 to 45 bucks. I know cause I looked! sadly I can make a box. I could even engrave the top! that is cool. has character... like you MM :D 8)

;)

Bandmill Bandit · March 16, 2020, 09:10:35 PM

You may be surprised! There a still 2 of those boxes in this family and both came to North America on a boat.

The ones we have do not have any english on them as they were purchased in the country of origin. Was part of pre World War II school kit.

doc henderson · March 16, 2020, 09:14:52 PM

It is amazing what used to come with stuff, like a wooden box. used to be at the state fair you got a square yard stick, but they always ran out before we got there. :( my dad had an old finger jointed box like that that he kept his router bits in.
One of my best friends from school, cub scouts up through college, gave me a box once. Just a carboard box, but his granpa cut around the top carefully, and then took some latex house pain and coated the outside. I put my odds and ends wire in it. I still have that box 40 years later... with old wire in it!