Possible Lessons Learned

[jmur1]

I was going to mention this a couple of days ago on another thread.  I have two possible solutions that might work for someone else. 

First One:

The rising wedge problem was something I think I was able to nearly conquer.  I added two large springs to the chunk supporter under a two floating plates.  This allows for the wedge to remain steady in place and also allows a small adjustment downward even when the wedge is full of wood.  Alot of the upward force on the wedge comes from the wood pushing down on the processor.  The wedge has no choice but to creep up.  If the floor of the processor is floating (with the springs) then the wedge stays put nicely.  The two circles on the plates near the end is where the large springs are.  I have about 1" of travel there.



 

 The second one:

My heavy duty end stop that springs down and back.  Saves alot of alignment time and works very well without all the extra hydraulics and switching that you see on the big models.  It pivots downward where you see the bolt across the back of the pipe.  Adjustable lengths and functional. 



 

jmur1       

[wiam]

Could you explain more on the log stop?

[mike_belben]

So even with a hydraulic cylinder you are experiencing the wedge creeping up? 


Is there a chance the ram needs air bled?

[jmur1]

Hi wiam:
The log stop is a couple of pipes that slide in one another to allow length adjustment.  The "pin or bolt" is at the rear of the machine.



When the log is cut and the chunk releases, the stopper will travel downward on an arc away from the wood untill free.  Then the spring pulls it back up into place horizontal again.


 



Check my first video at 1 min there is a good view of it working there.  Apologize for the old video - my machine runs nearly twice that fast now.

Homemade Firewood Processor on the Slide - YouTube

jmur1

[jmur1]

So even with a hydraulic cylinder you are experiencing the wedge creeping up?


Is there a chance the ram needs air bled?

Hi Mike:
After I changed out the base with springs I didnt have any more problems with rising up.  I had all kinds of trouble before that.  I had tried to design the wedges to move the wood up and out since I had the 6 way wedges (I had two different versions of it).  I had many bent wedges and lower supports before I added the springs, and was also bending the cylinder support at the top.  The wood would jam into the wedges so tight if you just continued to cut and split without clearing the splits from the wedges every few chunks.
jmur1   

[hedgerow]

jmur1     A couple very good ways to help two problems that most processors have. I know when I was doing 24 inch to 36 inch dia locust in my homemade processor I was having problems with the wood pushing the six way wedge up and breaking cylinder mounts. I like that log stop how it helps the chunk fall into the splitting chamber. I know if I was building mine again I wouldn't use a current splitter like I did on mine I would build one from scratch with the splitting chamber so the chunk always centers up no matter what dia the chunk is and make the chamber floor so you can move it up and down with a hyd cylinder. I would make the conveyor and saw off set from the splitting chamber so the round just rolls down into the splitting chamber this would also keep the log deck lower to the ground. 

[jmur1]

jmur1     A couple very good ways to help two problems that most processors have. I know when I was doing 24 inch to 36 inch dia locust in my homemade processor I was having problems with the wood pushing the six way wedge up and breaking cylinder mounts. I like that log stop how it helps the chunk fall into the splitting chamber. I know if I was building mine again I wouldn't use a current splitter like I did on mine I would build one from scratch with the splitting chamber so the chunk always centers up no matter what dia the chunk is and make the chamber floor so you can move it up and down with a hyd cylinder. I would make the conveyor and saw off set from the splitting chamber so the round just rolls down into the splitting chamber this would also keep the log deck lower to the ground.

Hi hedgerow:

I just added a new feature this year that has been another "are you in-genius" moment.  I put a levered bar across the chamber so when chunks fall crooked I give this bar a quick twist/turn.  It works about 50% of the time.  I definitely makes my operation faster since when I take my hands of off the controls the blade stops spinning which then takes a few seconds to fire up again.
Simple enough.
jmur1


 

 

[mike_belben]

I really appreciate you guys sharing your discouraging moments with everyone.  


What are your thoughts on a pair of hydraulic trap doors?  Say they could travel from a few degrees above horizontal and drop down to vertical with independant control?   Raise or lower a round, jostle it or drop it out the chamber onto the ground as a reject?  


Ive seen a million processor vids.  Theyre mostly great until stuff lands sideways, then that extra $50 Gs spent on a 3 second faster cycle is out the window.  The other is the guy hanging out the window [literally this time] with a pickaroon going after resplits every 3 cycles. 


I am contemplating a fairly unique box wedge in a frame with a dragback arm that pins on/off so that the machine has the capacity to deal with clean wood in one push or ugly wood in multipass mode without me reaching in.  Hit an antfarm, or some mean crotch piece, drop it out the trap door onto the ground and keep moving.  Feed it to my boiler later. 

[jmur1]

Hi Mike:

Ability for chunk removal is a very good idea.  Trap doors would also work a nice multi-function.  
I have not had much to do with box blades.  But as with the multi-wedge the forces that are at play are very large and therefore good planning is a must to avoid disastrous results.  I know that alot of the wood I split around my area would be rejects for a box blade.
I spend some time every day sledging chunks backwards from the multi-wedge.  I can only imagine the hassle of this in a box blade.
In the original machine, the Ø5" bore cylinder was more effective at forcing splits through but was also more prone to damaging other parts.  Now with the Ø4" bore I have faster cycling and less damage with some increased sledging included.  (Although if Im awake enough experience avoids the sledging)     
  
I have always been amazed at how the processor can effortlessly bend a 1 inch plate wedge but when I throw it on my 20T press it laughs at me!       

jmur1

[hedgerow]

jmur1
That's a good idea adding that bar. I can see were that will be a big help. These processors be it factory or homemade are a steep learning curve as the wood size and quality is always changing.

[mike_belben]

.  I know that alot of the wood I split around my area would be rejects for a box blade.

Maybe we are using different nomenclature.  What are you calling a box blade?  


In my mind the stuff that doesnt go through a 6/8/12 way wedge is suited to a box blade.  The box blade is more robust than the various multiple winged wedges   [ + × * etc  ]  


The box i mean looks more like the pi symbol and only attempts to split off a few pieces at a time from a large round [rather than the entire round at once] so most of the round is passed over the horizontal knife, then dragged back for another cycle, like a vegetable slicer board.  one large round requires multiple cycles to fully break down to firewood.

[jmur1]

Hi Mike:
I was thinking of this version.  Pretty much what you describe.



 

I would like to try one on the knotty stuff that I sometimes face.  I could be wrong... but I would need to see it to believe it!
Usually the benefit of the 4 and 6 way is that sledging them in reverse is possible and I still have some pieces that are seriously stuck.  Knotty Cherry,Oak, or Iron Wood?  

It is definitely a good design for many other reasons.  One other problem I have heard of is a lot a small pieces produced.  I get alot of that from my wedges as well.   

My bet is the manufacturer is using high strength 100xf or 80 ksi steel on those wedges.  

jmur1  

[jmur1]

I like this Eastonmade one.



 

[mike_belben]

I have never seen a box splitter in person so im going off perception here.  Hopefully we can hear some experienced guys' comparison soon on these.  I sure dont want to waste my most coveted steel and sharpen all those faces on a bad layout!  That vee box seems to cover a lot of bases.. A hybrid.  

[stavebuyer]

I had an Eastonmade 22-28(22hp 28gpm) with 4way/6way/ and the very 1st box wedge he built.

28 GPM behind a 5 inch cylinder with 3.5" rod will force knotty hickory through the box wedge sideways. Do it often enough you will also find there is enough pressure to bend and tear one inch plate steel.

The Box wedge is ideal for oversize logs because you keep shaving off the bottom with no re-handling/re-splitting required that would be necessary with 2/4/6/8/12 way wedge. Also the re-splits from large rounds with a traditional wedge kill your production as you have a cycle that only produces two pieces if the initial split is too large. That is where the kinetic really pays its way...re-splits..but that's another chapter. 

I got to the point I would pay a large premium for straight grained logs and pay to haul off the junk crotches. Time is money and equipment is expensive. Even if you get the gnarly stuff reduced, it is still generally odd shaped and ends up in the "discount" pile. With firewood you are selling the labor that goes into making it Wood that won't feed smoothly through a box wedge just won't pay.  

[jmur1]

stavebuyer

It really is all most comical how much extra time can be spent on dealing with crooked or heavy limbed log sections.  These machines run like butter for so much of the work and then run into a brick wall without a warning.

I was splitting just yesterday when I came across a larger chuck with a whole lot of knots showing on the ends and sides.  The little voice in my head said just pick it out before you break something!  I then carried on like normal and the machine walked through it like a Sunday stroll in the park.  Always amazed that no matter how long you do this job you can still be tricked.  Its not just a job its a sport!

jmur1