Making it through another year '21-'23

[aigheadish]

Story of my life Tom! The amount of projects, in my head, that feel like they'll be easy and look great is quickly hampered by the reality of my skill and patience. You are much better about trying again, when I often say "Eh, that's good enough" and that's why I'll likely never make any money doing wood working.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, I'm not making any money at it either right now. :D :D

[firefighter ontheside]

The lock miter once set up correctly can make a good joint.  Your material has to be very flat and straight and held down tight to the router table or the joint will wander across the face of your piece. If you're making some sort of boxes with the lock miter, I will offer a method that worked well for me.  Route each piece the same on each edge instead of routing one edge laying flat and the other edge standing up against the fence.  So to make a box you will have 2 sides that had their edges routed standing up and 2 sides whose edges were routed while laying flat.  This makes it easier to clamp and glue the box together, because you will be squeezing the tongues down into the grooves better.  

[Old Greenhorn]

I concur. Everything you've said is important to these joints and I have been doing them exactly as you suggest. I stumbled on those items either through dumb luck, shear skill, or looking at the ones you did. ;D 
 Material quality is absolutely critical, flat, straight and square and that's why I made the jig (which works perfectly for good clean joints lines).
 BUT I am having a couple of issues. 
1) the material I selected is ERC and it is planed to 1/2" thick, which is pretty thin for this wood and not really rigid at that thickness. It seems to bow out when I assemble the parts and clamp (from glue pressure?). 
B) I am cutting the joints across the grain and this leads to chipping out at the end of the slot. Not all the time, but often enough to be dang annoying. I chose this way because the grain then runs horizontal around the box and looks more appealing, I think. I may have to rethink. 
3) that material I have is showing up defects at the worst possible time, when I am doing finish sanding. I am gluing some cracks to repair and filling chips with clear epoxy, but that adds a lot of time and re-finishing. I don't want to waste the material and time I have into it.

 I think I will do he next group out of all cherry and see how that goes. Possibly change the direction of the grain too. The issue I have with both materials is that I have a LOT of it in just under 5" wide or less and I need 5-6" finished size for this project for this job by design, not choice. They have to end up a certain size inside.

 I am doing finish sanding and hopefully starting the fishing today, but man this is tedious.

[beenthere]

I am doing finish sanding and hopefully starting the fishing today, but man this is tedious.

Hope the fish are biting, and will be more enjoyable than finish sanding. :D :D

[firefighter ontheside]

I'd rather be fishing.

[firefighter ontheside]

You may be better off with just mitering the joints at the tablesaw.  I have good luck that way.  Miter the joints and tape and glue them.  Then you won't have the chip out issue.

[btulloh]

Back up the workpiece with a sacrificial piece the same thickness.  The backup piece keeps the workpiece from tearing out. 

The other way is to make the workpiece wider than the finished width and then rip off the blowout side after machining.

[Nebraska]

 :D yep.  

[Old Greenhorn]

btulloh, I do have it backed up, but the profile on this is pretty tiny and I sometimes get tear out along the midsections of the joint line. Can't fight that. Cutting across the grain doesn't help and I am re-thinking that too. By accident, early on I did some in the 'wrong' direction (with the grain) and they don't look bad really. 

 Bill that's a good idea and it would allow me to go back to 1/4" stock which was my original desire and fits better for this product size, also reduces shipping weight a little. I had watched a video on miter joint cut/tape/ glue/fold methods a little bit ago and as soon as the TS top is cleared off I may try a few to see how it goes. That may be a winner too.

 I'd rather be fishing too, but that was a typo. The ice isn't thick enough and they just postponed the local kids ice fishing derby until the end of Feb. hoping for some kind of ice showing up.

------------------------------------------
OK, so you fellas have all been very good boys waiting as patiently as you have. (I'm actually impressed.) I ran into more small issues today requiring backing up a bit and I made a few small mistakes and I was not really ready for photos and a full reveal, but I figured it's time to let the cat out of the bag. Or in this case, put the dead cat in a box. Intrigued?


Well a few weeks ago among other things in Howard's list of suggestions for things I could make and sell (remember my faux paus with he birdhouse comment?), he mentioned making crematory urn boxes or animal caskets. Frankly I kind of blew it off, not because I thought it was a bad idea, or because it didn't suit me, but because I didn't see how I could possibly market these things. It's always connecting with the market that is the issue with these things and we all, I think, know that.
 SO the next day or so, another member sent me a PM and expressed an interest in selling them possibly on an ongoing basis. I won't name the member here because I didn't ask him about disclosing this private conversation, but he is welcome to declare himself if he chooses. Y'all will forgive me if I dance around those details regarding all that but stick with the job itself.

 So I was given dimensions of the two most common sizes to work with and I did a little research on what's out there. A LOT of these little boxes come with laser work, either standard or custom ordered. I don't have a laser, so that's out. They also sometimes have little surface mount photo holders to slide in a personal photo of the animal. I have searched and searched and can't find a source for a good type of frame I could mount on the front. I am not going to get into doing fancy router and second panel work on this stuff. I just don't have the right gear for that. Routing out windows is a PITA with what I have.

 I decided to just do a simple box with the specified inside dimensions I was given. I also needed a way to seal it, that is, keep it closed. My thought is that once the 'contents' are placed in the box, there is little need to open and close it as one would with a jewelry box. So I searched and found some simple brass screws with knurled ball heads on them, sold brass, not plated. I hate that plated crap, cheap.

 SO here you go. This is the prototype I whipped up in a day or so.


 

That's made with 1/4" stock for the sides and measures 3x7x4.5 (inside). It has ERC sides and Cherry top and bottom. But gluing it up was a pain and I wanted a simple square glueup, so I ordered a locking miter router bit and made stock 1/2" thick for it. I also (FINALLY!) got a 1/2 collet for my router.

 So I planed out and cut up a bunch of stock while I waited for the router tools to arrive. It's hard to get good clean stock out of all that ERC I milled with small pieces.
 Cutting to the chase, here we are:


 

On the right is the larger of the two sizes, the other two are the smaller (more common?) size. The one in the back is the prototype. I have no idea why the one on the left looks out of square, it is not, but it looks messed up in the photo.
 Same 4, different view.


 


Here below, the one on top has the grain going the wrong way. I'm not sure I don't like it.



 

This shows the brass screws that hold the top in place. I have those holes tapped through the sides and into the top.




Detail of the screw into the top only, just in case I didn't explain it well.


 

 I have 3 more of the smaller ones I am still doing touch-ups on. So I have 6 of the smaller ones and just one of the larger ones. I kind of rushed these through to get one coat on tung oil finish on them so I could get you guys some photos. You've waited long enough, and this is not that big a deal.
 I think I will try some cherry on the next group to see how that behaves in small parts.
----------------
 Funny thing, I was working on these last weekend and my son and his boys came by. When he saw what I was doing, he texted a photo to his EX who manages a Vet practice. She said they need these all the time and use a catalog order system. She said they would like to talk about stocking some to see how they go. Funny how that works out, ain't it?

 Ah, whatever, tomorrow is another day.

[Bert]

Reading this brought back memories of my earliest days in the sawmill business. Back in the early/mid 2000's most of our grade lumber went to casket makers (wholesale markets). The slogan around there was people are dying for our lumber.  :

[Nebraska]

Those look really good Tom. 👍 I wonder who would put you up to such a project.  

Duty calls they found my patient.
 

[Old Greenhorn]

 :D :D ;D Well, there goes your evening. I hope he is OK and doesn't have a head injury. I saw that happen with a huge Lab once and I thought he would die, but after some care, he was just fine. Go figger, cars and dogs. ???

[WV Sawmiller]

   Looks good. I did not know there were standards on them and would have thought they were more horizontal than vertical so I guess my request for a commission is not going to be met with much success. :D

   I really do think there should be a market for them. I don't know if the customers are going to want any kind of lining or how complicated that would be to do. I think you said your wife quilts and sews so she might be able to help with that question if it comes up. 

   Good luck and I hope it works out well for you.

    Now the question will be - "Do you make them for Hamsters and Goldfish?" :

[Old Greenhorn]

....

   Now the question will be - "Do you make them for Hamsters and Goldfish?" :

Yes. If you are paying for the cremation and ash recovery you can and should afford one of my designer urns. :D

[WV Sawmiller]

   Belay my last on the lining. That would only be for pet caskets and I gather these are urns.

    Now you've got me thinking about cremating a goldfish and I am now craving fried catfish for lunch tomorrow. (I apologize to those of you who feel that was an insensitive comment.)

    Funny how these threads get back to food. :D 

[beenthere]

Magicman specializes in chicken... 

[firefighter ontheside]

Looks great Tom and I like the cedar.  I made urns for our 2 pups that have been cremated.  These are about 7"x7"x7" and made with a mix of walnut, cherry and maple.  A detail that would be easy to add and is appropriate is the little paw prints I inlaid.  All you have to do is use plug cutters to make the inlay pieces and forstner bits to make the holes.  

 

 

[Old Greenhorn]

That came out really nice Bill!  I also like the simple 45° cut around the top it strikes me as elegant. If I did the paw print naturally the price would have to go up. So as I am struggling with that issue let me ask you, if you were selling that box, what would you charge? This is driving me a little crazy because I can't figure what my time is quite yet.

[firefighter ontheside]

I guess if I were to sell ones like this I would ask around $150.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Obviously these are prototypes but any idea how many man-hours will be involved once you standardize the process? I think this is a great way to add value to a raw material. ;)

[newoodguy78]

Another option for customizing the outside might be a branding iron/wood burning stamp. Would be pretty quick to do a bunch. 
Keep up the good work. 

[beenthere]

There are places that sell them wholesale. 

https://wholesalecedarurns.com/shop/1-case-small-standard-cedar-urns

Not personalized, but guess they could be and command a higher price than less than $14 each. 

[Nebraska]

 

 



 


Well my patient  will be very sore tomorrow and has a little road rash she will be fine and was very lucky.

After I was done checking her over, I reached under the front desk and got  Rudy's box out. He was the clinic  mascot and my partner in my vet truck. This was where  my inspiration came from after reading Howard's  post.

I hadn't gotten him out from his spot for several years.  I hadn't shown this to Tom  as i wondered what he wouldcome up with.

 I still miss that dog.

[Old Greenhorn]

Thanks Bill, for what you've made I would think about the same thing, it's really nice and your work is more precise than mine. If I were selling mine to a private buyer I think I would ask 100 bucks or so. But selling through a Vet or other outlet, I have to leave some markup for them, yet I need to make it worth my time also. Then there are shipping costs to recover. This is what I am pondering. Folks can find these on the internet easy (and some of the prices would surprise you, they did for me). Many Vets have a catalog available for clients to look through and chose, then an order is placed. If  Vet is going to do business with me, I would think they need a little meat on the bone to make it worth their while. So I am just thinking on all this and trying to figure it out. It's not about 'how much can I get?' it's more about "can I get enough to make it worth the time I put in?".

Howard, to answer your question: I can't answer your question :D ;D ;D... yet. I have spent most of my time looking at each step and trying to make it repeatable for production. Right now the process is more important than the time. The last 40 years of my career was designing production systems and designing products for manufacturability, so much of this is second nature to me and maybe I get into it too much by habit. It's also an iterative process, so it never ends and there is always another improvement that can be done. This is very early and basic in the process. So no, I have not got a flippin' clue how long one will take. Because I only have one RAS, one TS, and one table router and I have to keep changing setups and stops constantly. Also, there is a lot of finishing work and since I know these are important to the folks that buy them, I can't let something go that has a mark or chip or doesn't look right, so I do a bunch of touch up or rework to make it right. If I get good clean stock with no defects, that should go down quite a bit. The ERC is 'challenging'. On the other hand, I did get paid to take this tree down and remove the logs. I milled it for nothing and frankly am not even considering the material cost in the final tally, maybe I should? :D