Making it through another year '21-'23

[21incher]

Nice job. I like the cedar with the natural  purple hue. When dealing with  problem grain I usually just start with 20% extra parts and burn the parts with defects to save time. You definitely should  look into at least a small diode laser to burn your logo and website info on the bottom of items you make and it doesn't take long. Gives items a professional finished look and spreads your name. Some run on cellphones now. 

[aigheadish]

Wow, Tom, good stuff! Great to hear a potential source of work has asprung! 

A few notes from a know nothing: 

You should absolutely include wood processing to your time, that material isn't free. 

I really like the vertical grain on the one box. The corners you are cutting look intense!

I'd be surprised if someone in your area couldn't help with engraving. I'd offer but shipping would be prohibitive. It would greatly increase the value, even if you aren't going with "how much can you get?" I think it's worth looking into. I don't know if a veneer for engraving could be attempted? That could make shipping costs come way down, or maybe even a little wooden contrasting plaque that was engraved? If you want I'd be willing to try something like that out with you. There are much better lasers than mine out there but it's definitely good enough to engrave a name or paw print or things like that (I don't have any experience with pictures other than it seems like the picture has to be just right for it to work).

I think customization adds big value without adding huge costs. 

Also, for the vets that you know that may offer something like this, having a real life sample of the urn the customer would get with a simple note of you being a friend of the vet and pet community draws folks in much better than a catalog.

FFOTS- That box is beautiful!

beenthere- While I haven't bought any cedar boxes like that I did buy a handful of similar boxes, seemingly mass produced in China, for a similar price. They were junk, comparatively, to what Tom's got, not that the idea was to compare and 13 bucks a piece is about right. OGH should be able to sell his a good premium.

[Hilltop366]

I would think that the vertical grain would work well for production efficiency, it would allow you to make the corner joint in longer boards instead of handling many short pieces and then cut around the defects. The down side would be that the longer pieces need to be straight but that is also a plus in a way because it makes you pickier with your materials and keeps you from spending a half hour saving a 30 piece of cent board.

[Hilltop366]

Oh.. and they look lovely, I agree no need to paint them.

[Old Greenhorn]

Nebraska, that is a beautiful box. I can't match that. I don't have a way to make the dovetails and the workmanship looks perfect. The photo holder is exactly what I was looking for, but cannot find. Anybody have a lead on those? Sweet looking pup BTW. I had a black lab that was my truck dog/buddy for years and I still miss that gal dearly.

 21inch, I know that if I keep going I will have to get a laser, but it's like starting over. I did programming for nearly 50 years on big CNC's and I thought I was done with that for good. Now I need to find some kind of machine, buy another computer to drive it and go through all the learning pains of getting it to work right. Plus I am cash strapped right now. Since you have a lot of time with these smaller machines, do you have any specific suggestions as to how to get started?

 Austin, I may try some vertical grain, but the issue is stock width. I would need around 8" wide stock for those bigger boxes, Those boxes that beenthere showed seem to be made in Washington. He does have a habit of peeing on folks campfires sometimes. They are only sold in bulk cases of 32 units. I have no inattention of competing with that, nor buying theirs and doing a cheap markup job. I'm not sure what his point was but yeah, there are those guys out there.
 It would be nice if I could find a local hobby guy with a laser and skills. I don't think anybody in it full time will waste their time helping me and it would be more up front outlay anyway.

"Oh.. and they look lovely, I agree no need to paint them."
 Well that's good to know Hilltop. Thanks! :D :D ;D

 Snow just started here and this time they say about 6" so I have to change gears and go collect the rest of the logs I cut Sunday before they disappear then run some other errands.
 Time to get at it.

[doc henderson]

alright let me catch up.  worked yesterday and stayed over 2 hours so just getting caught up today.  I think the cedar is more for the rustic folks so the knots and stuff will always crack and all that.  I think a casket should be more flat, but and urn can be more upright and tall.  so the grain going top to bottom for that is fine, and the locking miter is along the grain, and not across it.  you can contact the laser sellers in your area, and they may provide contact for people with a laser in your area.  I have several friends/acquaintances that I engrave for on a regular basis, and we barter.  My duck/turkey call guy, makes stuff for me that I give as gifts.  I have milled for him, and also have his logo on file.  Sawdust Jimmy like to number and sign his bowls and it is a good chance for us to chat and have a beer when he is not in Arizona.  It would really take me about 2 minutes to custom engrave a name.  you logo could go on the bottom or back.  the picture could be glued on and covered with epoxy, but I like the idea of the frame.  I doubt they will change the pic, so it could be more of a screw over the picture piece and that could be made from wood.  I have the Rockler state park font for plunge routing and that would work also.  for the ones you want to be perfect, I would use cherry or walnut or maple as it machines well.  the rustic ones for the bird dog owner ect. can be cedar, but the defects add to the style.  My laser is an epilog and see who the distributor is and see if you can fine an owner in your area.  I have tried to turn ERC on a lathe and it does not work well, and tends to chip out.  A hard wood should do better with the locking miter bit.  for the cedar boxes, you may do better to make the front and back form half inch and the sides 1/4 inch and just uses a dado for the joint that is seen only on the sides.  then you could plane 8 foot long stock and make parts for 30 at a time, as mass production on a small scale seems to be the goal.  Parts can be stored and assembles as needed.  remember the color will turn brown if exposed to air and light, so dead stacking will prevent that and the taking up space.  I am not a psychiatrist, but I find it interesting that you always migrate back to a wood that looks purple but eventually turn brown.

[samandothers]

Really nice looking urns, great job!  If I had attempted to tap the wood for screws in that location the results would have been very ugly! 

[doc henderson]

Industrial Laser Supply
Contact: Ryan Sprole
10 Applegate Lane
Woodbury, CT 06798
(203) 249-2783 office

how far is this for you?  If you call they will come to you and do a demo.  They may also share folks in your area with a laser.

[beenthere]

Sure didn't mean to pee on OGH, as I only took the time to see what pet urn's were selling for. Surprised me to see the wholesale market out there.. and there are many, it appears from my brief search. 

But was involved years back with a similar start-up business of making walnut bowls, desk lamps, table lamps, and even floor lamps out of turned, solid black walnut. Green walnut chucked in a lathe with a back cut single knife turned a blank, the blanks were treated with PEG, oven dried, and then finish turned. They didn't crack due to the PEG treatment. The pieces were sanded on a lathe using 80, 220, 400, and finally steel wool to remove any turning marks. Finally three coats of Danish oil and polished with lambs cloth. They were beautiful, but the customers were just as happy buying similar plastic or glass products as the beautiful walnut figured grain (no two alike) didn't mean a reason to pay more than the run-of-the-mill bowl, lamp, vase found at Target or Walmart. The additional cost of finishing these solid walnut products put them out of reach of the customer willing to buy. The real world. 

Hoping OGH cracks the market with his beautiful product. Looks like he has a good start at it. Wish him the best. 

 

[doc henderson]

I recommend the last option.  learning curve of course, and my 18 x 24 inch 60 watt helix was 21K.  expensive hobby or business.  we now have an engraving company in hutch, a town of 45 K.

[aigheadish]

We have at least one engraving company as well, granted Dayton is a bit bigger, but this is a small joint, I assume they've got good money in lasers but I also assume with that comes decent overhead and potential for higher prices to recoup the laser cost.

I was thinking, if I were to help, something like this, engraved, then attached to the urn with nice brass tacks (ideally on better wood, locally sourced). I'd be glad to mock some up and send them your way OGH. I'd hope your customer could find a lot of pets named Fido, or Spot, or whatever a good cat name would be. As doc said these would take very minimal time to make, only a few minutes, and on a production level, where a decent fixture could be made, it would go quickly. I could turn them around to you in very little time and at very small cost. I sit out next to laser in the shop pretty much every day for my after work beer as it is already.

[doc henderson]

I think the button (round style) like FFOS did to make the paw would work.  my engraver can cut a circle around each one, and it can be inset with a forstner bit.  and cut shipping of small discs instead of the whole board.   check locally and see if you can barter wood for engraving.  could even do the paw and use the coin engraved buisiness card as the round big part of the paw.

[JJ]

Austin, recognized? Really? I seriously doubt that could or would ever happen. I have no idea when it will come out. These things sometimes get rushed for an album release and sometimes held for the same reason. I've never heard of this band, but what do I know? Yes, as I commented to the guy whose job it was to simply turn the fog machine off and on as they were shooting or waiting: "you guys are professional stand-arounder's, aren't you?" And he replied "Yup, if you aren't good at that, you don't belong in this business." I just said "Well I can say, it ain't easy.

I don't often look into this thread, today I did and was on page 76 where you talk about being a "backgrounder" for video -well I look and it is out and I recognized you -your famous  !!
Yeah Yeah Yeahs - Wolf (Official Video) - YouTube

Didn't look ahead to see if you had already posted..  Did you get paid $$?

      -JJ

[Old Greenhorn]

JJ I had nearly forgotten about that video. I did come across it a couple of months ago and it was up to around 750k views.  Yes, I did get paid even with a little extra for the overage of time.
---------------------

 Now guys, I know your job is to help me spend money but lets dial it back a bit here, shall we? ;D First, I really don't want to make these things more complicated than they already are. folks can get things engraved locally if they want. Second, there is a difference between spending money and spending money I don't have. I barely have enough for operating odds and ends right now and there is nothing for equipment. I am not trying to build an empire here. I ran one of those Epilog's like you have Doc, maybe even the same model. It did a nice job and very versitle. That's just not in my future in any event. I really don't want to be sitting at a machine all day just so I can pay for it. I did that for too many years.
 To get back on track here, I just want to make simple boxes that look nice and can be made in small lots to satisfy a reasonable need. If, and that is a big IF, they sell in a somewhat steady stream and generate some income I will of course look to expanding the line or capabilities, but first I have to see what is there, if anything and how the demand may hold. Take care of the basics first. I would like to have a better joint that is easier to make with less scrap that glues easier and faster. I need to reduce the amount of sanding and finishing time. These are the important things right now.

 Yes, I did express an interest, BUT it will have to be a small fiber job that is VERY cheap and I will have to get a computer for the shop, my desk job is getting too old and I don't want to move it out there. I figure I only need to engrave about a 3x5 area, so if anything, I was hoping somebody might offer suggestions on a really cheap unit they have used that works, very simple. When I say really cheap, I mean under $200 . Even that will have to wait until after I sell a mess of mushroom logs in the next 2 months. Mostly I could use it to do logos on the bottom of my furniture.

 But for these boxes I want to keep it simple until we see what transpires. Yes, maybe local barter will be a possibility I may look into, but I have to nail this design down firm and get a good short run done that I'm happy with.

 I know you guys are all trying to help me and the ideas do help, but sometimes it's overwhelming how you guys get carried away. It doesn't help that some of these ideas are things I'd like to try but there is no cash to work with and I don't spend money I don't have, especially now. It's beyond frustrating for me.

[WV Sawmiller]

   And if they don't sell you can always use them to store your rice and grits in. :D

[SawyerTed]

 

 

 
Tom, the urns are very nice.  You do very nice work.  

I made these for my parents' ashes.  Mom's was engraved.  Dad doesn't need his yet.  

I'm sharing this because the laser engraving was $15 for Mom's.  Turn around was just one day.  The engraving was done by a local guy, the artwork was my own.  

We have two local guys who do laser engraving, one does it exclusively, one is a gunsmith and custom firearms builder.  

I'll bet there's someone not too far from you operating out of a garage or basement who does great work.  Another source might be trophy shops or sign shops.  

BTW, these are made from cherry that I milled.  I used a planer, table saw, router and drill press.  

[Old Greenhorn]

Beautiful work there Ted!
Your design just gave me a new idea for the corner joints, not sure how yours went together or look on the inside, but I can guess close enough to try something. I'll have to do some sketching and thinking tonight. Thanks.
BTW, I had the exact same table saw until I traded up a couple of months back. I got a lot of wood through that saw before it moved on to another guy getting started. Good machines.

Edit to add: Ted, how did you secure the top?

[beenthere]

 I know you guys are all trying to help me and the ideas do help, but sometimes it's overwhelming how you guys get carried away. 

Thinking what OGH is trying to say, is he is not looking for help, but wants us to know about what he is doing and planning to do. Good look on the boxes so far, and hope to hear more about accomplishing your next discoveries. Keep up the good work and let us know. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Not exactly. What I thought I was saying is that I appreciate all the help but I am just trying to get down the road to the next driveway while the group is heading down the road at 100MPH headed for the interstate.

[doc henderson]

you forgot the fact that it is in a one ton dually pulling a 40 foot camping fifth wheel!!

[Larry]

I would like to have a better joint that is easier to make with less scrap that glues easier and faster. I need to reduce the amount of sanding and finishing time.

I make a wack of boxes every year. Most use a finger joint (aka box joint) or miter joints with splines. I make the finger joints with a shop made jig using an old dedicated Craftsman router. Ready to go at all times. Mitered corners made on a shop made sled with setup blocks for production speed. Shop made clamping jig for the glue up. I always pre-sand and sometimes pre-finish the insides. Box sides are normally 5/16" - 3/8" resawn stock so I get four corner grain matches.  I have lots of other tricks to speed production and increase efficiency. 

A lot of what I do was taught to me by Doug Stowe. Doug is a teacher, author, an a great box maker. I see lots of his box making books on eBay.

I have another friend that does my laser work. He has a substantial investment in equipment and knowledge.  Does a wonderful job in a timely manner with a reasonable price. I'm happy to keep it this way. 

[SawyerTed]

I wish I could say the corners were a fancy joint but they were simple miters.  I glued a corner block inside on the front and back. I joined the sides to the front and back. They are simple glue joints with an exterior grade glue.  

The top is similar to yours.  Just a two layer top.  The smaller layer fits inside the top of the box and secured with screws on either side of the box.  The bottom was made similar to the top but it was glued and fastened with brads. 

The corner molding was milled out of square stock, the corners were done with the router.

The woodworking was necessarily simple because the boxes weren't build until Mom passed and the subsequent schedule required something be built quickly. 

If I remember correctly the thickness of the stock was 3/8".  

That is a slightly modified Delta 10" Contractor's Saw.  Before I ever used it, I changed the motor to a 220 volt 2 hp.  It has been adequate for most of what I do. I couldn't afford more saw 34 years ago when I bought that one.  

I'm looking at the Saw Stop saws now.   Seems like the Delta and Powermatic cabinet saws/Unisaws are selling cheap now because so many are going to Saw Stop saws.

I got spoiled when I was teaching.  We had a 12" Powermatic table saw in the shop, an 18" Powermatic Planer, Delta 3/4" spindle shaper and so on.  

[Old Greenhorn]

Well Ted, your corner joint design intrigued me. I can't do those fancy finger joints like Larry does and I'll have to do some research on that for the future. SO I spent some time today on the 'Ted Corner joint'. Not knowing exactly how it looked on the inside, I came up with what I thought was simple. Gluing will require a jig if I go forward, but for now I got one out.



 

The joint looks like this:



 

That allowed me to use 1/4" stock. I am running out of tops and bottoms and have none left for the larger size. I still want to try the fold up miter style and I cut some stock for that but came up short for the last side, so decided to quit at 5:30 for the day. I will plane some more stuff tomorrow and give that a shot. I need to make a filler block for gluing, but it shows promise. I think I have about 9 of these boxes now. Our friend Doc was busy all day today making some laser engraved discs for me as a surprise. (And yeah, I was surprised!)Not sure how I can thank him for that. I ordered a forstner bit to make a pockets for these on the bottoms of the box. Lousy weather today, good shop day.
--------------------------------------------------
Speaking of good marketing, I was reminded yesterday that product placement can be a very important decision in good marketing.


 

:D :D ;D ;D

[WV Sawmiller]

   Looking better all the time! Have you talked to your local vets yet or are you waiting to take them finished urns? Are you considering a consignment arrangement or straight sales? I have offered reluctant businesses a consignment option to see if items sell and when they do they sometimes just go ahead and buy. You could offer consignment on a limited number and sell them after that once you have proved they sell. Good luck. 

[newoodguy78]

OG It's been awhile but I've done finger joints on a table saw with a dado blade and shop built sled that held the pieces on edge while running them through.  Not suggesting what you're doing isn't coming out well. Just throwing out an option to possibly use tools you've already got to do different things.