Why shouldn’t I order an Lt40 super?

[Crossroads]

This was my first season of milling full time and the Lt40 wide did a nice job for me. I bought this mill new in the fall of 2017 and it don't own me a dime. Right now I am mostly mobile and working by the hour, so a faster mill would result in a rate increase or switch to charging by the MBF. That being said, I would really like to phase into more custom milling on my own property, which I think the super would really be a benefit. Thank you for your thoughts. 

[Bruno of NH]

I don't want to spend your money.
You should get a lt50 
I think you won't be disappointed. 

[Southside]

Because you should get a Super 70 and just don't look back. 

[Old Greenhorn]

My 2 cents: Time is money, you've just said as much. Get the LT50 with the big diesel and debarker and dono't look back. The 70 would be nice but money is money too. That 50 can really make time in the right hands.

[WV Sawmiller]

  Is your sawing speed your bottleneck? If so is the increased speed going to increase production enough to pay for the extra costs? If you're already sawing at top speed a significant amount of the time a bigger/faster mill may be justified but if there are other bottlenecks in your process holding you back I'd address them first. Good luck.

[Magicman]

Yup, would the increased production justify the cost?

I occasionally 'spec' the different models out that would be comparable to my usage.  The LT50 would be $3855 more and would include the vertical side supports and chain turner.  I'm glad that I will not have to make that decision, but I am also glad that I have a Super.

[YellowHammer]

Having had an LT40, its a great mill.  Now I have another mill with a chain turner which is worth at least $5K and the vertical side supports are at least another $3K. :D

So its worth another $8K minus the $3,855 that WM charges for the LT50 means you can save more than $4K for purchasing the LT50 over the LT40.   :D :D  So we are saving you money by buying the LT-50.

[Resonator]

Will the LT40 WIDE be going up for sale? (Asking for a friend.) ;D

[Nebraska]

I think  when Woodmizer accidentally ships that lt 50 super to a dealer in Missouri.... Well on your way down to pick it up you should just drop the lt40 by my place  for safe keeping....


Just saying  ;)

[Crossroads]

Lol, yes the 40 would go on the market about a month before delivery. I haven't spec'd out the 50, but the 2 main difference is the telescope side supports and the chain turner. I haven't got the opportunity to operate a mill with those features, but talking to one guy that has. I kinda got talked out of them for the moment. 
     As for the bottle neck being the mill. Yes and no. There are times when the tail gunner/gunners are waiting for me. Basically from loading the log until boards start coming off the cant. Then I can bury them, especially when edging.
      The main upgrades that I'm after are, the command control, more power, fine adjustment outriggers and the bigger up/down motor. I guess I Ned to find someone with a 50 that would let me take it for a test drive. 

[Crossroads]

Just ran the specs on the 50 and the difference is right in line with What MM came up with, about 4K more. 

[John S]

I vote for the 50.  However, there is no big diesel option at this time.  Engines available are basically the same as an LT40.

[Old Greenhorn]

........ I guess I Ned to find someone with a 50 that would let me take it for a test drive.

Well, if you ever come east, give a holler. You could run ours for a day or two. :D ;D
 I don't know why your 'guy' didn't like the side supports, they are a HUGE timesaver and that chain turner works great in both directions, useful for flipping heavy slabs off on the loader side. Another big time saver. I think not getting those supports and turner is a mistake so think that one through and find a test run.
 Good luck!

[YellowHammer]

There is no diesel option?

I wonder why? They used to offer it.

The chain turner is faster and allows easy rotation of the log in either direction, and also serves as a mid mill toe board.  It's much faster than the claw turner.  It will however leave makes on clean four sided cants until the teeth dull up some. Basically, it can turn into a chainsaw if not used delicately on cants.

The vertical side supports are taller than the rotating up supports, so that is a plus.  They also are easier for me to keep square, however, they can't be bought with a hydraulic short log kit, which is not good.  So my LT40 had 4 powered backstops and my 70 has two hydraulic and two manual.  I hate manual anything on a mill.

The command control is great, and the best thing about it is that it can be set up as power anywhere with a power wire in the cat track, so hydraulics can be used with the head anywhere on the mill, which is amazingly useful. That is how the Super 70 is set up, so its a increased production level modification.  

Also, with the command console, the 40 cannot be purchased with dragback fingers, where the LT50 can.  I consider fingers an essential upgrade for command control.  I refitted my 40 with fingers, so it can be done, however, I used LT50 fingers to do it.     

[Old Greenhorn]

I don't use the chain turner for the last flip on a log or flipping a  cant. I use the clamp. Drop it down, slide it under the cant, lift, move the cant out and it tips in toward the backstops, then raise the clamp and it flips the can. If it's a big cant, I sometimes raise the turner to hold the cant in place while I reposition the clamp for another push. Easy and fast but once in a rare while it leaves a mark on the cant if you catch it wrong. I also use that clamp to lift the cant if something gets between the bunks and the cant so I can clean it out. That clamp is might handy.

[ladylake]

 

  I haven't got the opportunity to operate a mill with those features, but talking to one guy that has. I kinda got talked out of them for the moment. 

 Why would you get talked out of them, both big improvements.  Steve

[Southside]

Completely agree with YH and OG on the drag back, turner and side supports, they are superior to the 40 set up and I do the same as OG mentions with clean cants.  Also when breaking down logs into multiple cants that aren't finished I will toss them onto the loader arms with the end of the chain turner.  

With myself on the mill and a good edger operator we can work steady, now and then I will jump off the mill controls and help with a few pieces coming out of the edger, but it's a steady flow using the cruise control.  Toward the end of a cant he will get backed up, but the lumber is staged on rollers so there is no double handling and while I open the next log he gets caught up.  

I think a 50 would keep up with the same pace we are working at with the same set up and nobody is getting buried.  Add two behind me worth their salt and I let the lady stretch her legs, that's when the 70 shines.   

[Crossroads]

The negatives on the chain turner was the damage that it causes, but it sounds like that can be managed. He didn't like the telescope side supports when dealing with smaller logs, he claimed they are hard to hold since the rollers hit the radios of the log. 
     The 35hp diesel is what I spec'd for both. I passed the diesel up when I bought my current mill and I'm glad I did, I don't think the smaller up/down motor would have done well with the extra weight. 

[John S]

In my earlier post, I did not mean that a diesel was not available, I was responding to the mention of a big diesel.  The 35.9 hp Yanmar diesel is available, just as on the LT 40s.  I am told that the EPA did not approve the larger diesels that were available in the past on the Supers and 50s.  You must go with the Super 70s for the big diesels.

[Dave Shepard]

I haven't personally run a chain turner, but I doubt it does more damage than the claw turner. I use the two-plane clamp if there is a risk of damaging the cant. I get by with the claw, but there are times when it shows it's limitations. 

[dougtrr2]

Lol, yes the 40 would go on the market about a month before delivery. 

I am a very cautious.  I would not put the mill on the market until the new mill was in my hands, or confirmed on the road to my home.  If you put it up for sale and it sells right away you could be left with no mill for an unknown length of time.
Just my two cents.
Doug in SW IA

[YellowHammer]

I use the chain turner and two plane interchangeably, but since the chain is so much faster than the two plane, I use it on the sides of cants that will be the edges the boards, generally, or when the cants get light enough for the teeth to not dig in, I will use it freely.  Also, if its rotated slowly, tooth by tooth, instead of alike a chainsaw like in the WM videos, it's not that bad.

For example, while I'm sawing down the final cant, I will go ahed and set the two plane to its final height, and just use it as an "In and out" single plane clamp.  Then I rotate the cant with the chain, and simply clamp without ever having to reset the height of the clamp, even when gettin getting the dog board.  Much faster.

I understand what he is saying about the rollers on the side supports, but I installed both the rollers and the stainless steel protectors one my LT-40 for the same reason the rollers make the smaller logs harder to hold, they more than make up for it by making big logs easier to roll.  I much prefer them to non roller backstops.
The diesel is sweet.

BTW, I have sold two WM sawmills, both were sold inside a week, with multiple serious buyers waiting from across several states, at high side WM Orange Book prices. If you begin selling the mill a month early, you will be starting at an empty space for 3.5 weeks. :D :D :D

[Magicman]

I do not use the board dragback, matter of fact, I completely removed it from my sawmill.  The LT40 now comes with 4 side supports whereas the LT50 has 2 vertical side supports.

I have stated on here before that the only change that I would make for my situation would be the Wide Head.

[YellowHammer]

My LT-40 had 4 hydraulic side supports, with rollers and stainless steel bunks.

The LT50 I used had 2 hydraulic but also had 2 manual, because there isn't actual physical room for all 4 being hydraulic.  Maybe the configuration has changed since then.  Same with my LT70, only 2 can be hydraulic, and so two must be manual, due to lack of space.  I really dislike manual anything.

As far as dragbacks and stuff, everyone's situation is different.  I mill by myself mostly, and have command and control, both on my old 40 and my newer 70.  Full dragback and fingers, and I wouldn't own a sawmill one without it.  Here's me sawing up a poplar log some time ago, not going fast but just sawing. I made this video purposely with no video cuts or breaks, it was the last log of the day, all filmed real time, no edits, to show people who ask about what my particular sawmill and offloading configuration could do, yield wise.  Even now, it looks slow, and I have re-watched this many times to close those gaps in my process.  So I can do better than this now.  However, even at the time, a slightly more than 300 bdft Doyle log, milled from start to finish in 12 minutes give or take (minus me yakking), including me dead stackng the boards.  So 1,000 bdft per hour including moving logs and stacking wood, by myself.  Due to the dragback and fingers, (plus a little mod of mine) notice how it carries and drops the boards, or stacks of boards, right by my side, me almost not walking, especially along the mill to grab boards, very little movement on my part.  I just push those onto a waiting pallet.  In some parts of the video, you can see me use the chain turner as a makeshift log clamp, and other little things.

How to Saw Rainbow Poplar With Our Fast Woodmizer LT-70 - YouTube

[Old Greenhorn]

The negatives on the chain turner was the damage that it causes, but it sounds like that can be managed. He didn't like the telescope side supports when dealing with smaller logs, he claimed they are hard to hold since the rollers hit the radios of the log.
    The 35hp diesel is what I spec'd for both. I passed the diesel up when I bought my current mill and I'm glad I did, I don't think the smaller up/down motor would have done well with the extra weight.

Yes, certainly the chain damage can be managed to a great degree as Yellow hammer stated, but sometimes happens. Any turner with some sort of teeth will have some issues otherwise they couldn't grip on a rough log. Using that clamp to pick things up and move them around gets to be very handy when you get your dexterity fine tuned.
As for those rollers, yes, in that single case I have experienced that issue. The solution I use is to put the centerline of the roller just above the centerline of the log. For me, in all cases so far, this has allowed me to take a slab and at least one board off, if not more. It hasn't been an issue after my first day. It all comes down to using what you've got to get what you need and most of the hydraulic functions on the 50 has several uses besides what they were designed for. Figuring those out takes a little time and getting good with them takes a little more time, but when you do, you can fly along.
Maybe WM can help you find a local test drive?