Timberking Setworks Question

[Tasha]

My question is for  those of you that have a TK setworks.   Not the newest design (2016 or so to present) but the one before that model.  The manual refers to it as "Super Computer Setworks" and also just setworks.  It is the generation after the B20.  
My setworks just stopped working out of the blue, nothing intermittent just quit working.  No position readout but does power up and reads zero on the position readouts but nothing changes on the read out when the head is moved vertically.  It could easily be the encoder, it could be the setworks box, and it could be the wire cable to and from.  
Trying to trouble shoot and have ruled out the cable.  Talked to TK tech support and they said to ship the setworks and encoder units back and they could bench check them and if broken would send them out for repair but could not supply any real trouble shooting help as they apparently use a third party supplier.  I don't want to ship both units without having any idea which one or both that are not working properly. 
I talked to the encoder manufacturer and got really great trouble shooting help and believe it is the issue but not confirmed.  Would have helped to have an O-scope to look at the output but they supplied me a method using a VOM for trouble shooting.  Mike at TK was unable to supply me any numbers as to what voltages or signals were on each pin for the two M12 connectors on the setworks box.  My troubleshooting did make me really question two pin signals because the result made no sense for what the setworks should be doing.  Of course I don't know what it should be and can't get any technical info.  I have a theory but it is only a theory and has a good chance of being wrong.
So my question for the owners of this generation of setworks.  Have any of you done trouble shooting of your setworks box and have any knowledge that you can share as to the pin out voltages of the setworks? .I am trying to avoid shipping a potentially perfectly good setworks back to TK if it is not the problem.

[doc henderson]

I had this a few years back.  it was my encoder, and the company that provides them rebuilt it for less than half the cost of new.  Spoke to mike first, then Matt who got me in touch with the encoder company.  between them all, I sent it in, and it has worked great since.  I thought it was the solenoid switch at first because it had a broken wire.  the say the heat from the exhaust when at a certain height is blowing on the box.  you can divert the exhaust or make a shield (neither of which have I done yet) and it will last longer. I do not remember the details of how we arrived at that conclusion. it is common, and I do not remember the cost.  I think it was 230 vs 600 bucks or so.  good luck.

[ladylake]

   On the early TK 2000 mills the muffler  blows exhaust on the encoder when at full height.  Doc, you should get that fixed unless you just saw small logs.  Steve 

[xlogger]

  On the early TK 2000 mills the muffler  blows exhaust on the encoder when at full height.  Doc, you should get that fixed unless you just saw small logs.  Steve

I had that trouble also, twice. replaced muffler that blows out right side no more trouble and I cut mostly large logs now.

[Tasha]

It seems that no one has any personal trouble shooting experience for the setworks box on the output signals from their experience.   The TK tech support had nothing but I had to try to see if anyone had anything.  Oh well!  

The good news is I found out the third party builder of the setworks box.  As a result I was able to determine without doubt that the encoder was the only broken part.  The better news is not too bad a repair cost (really really fast turnaround time).

Did find out there is an O-ring on the female M12 connector to the encoder male connector that is designed to give the encoder its IP65 rating at the connector.  My issue/damage was water infiltration at the M12 connector that caused corroded wires and even some corrosion on the PCB.  I have never had a reason to and have not ever removed that M12 connector from the encoder.   Well mine had no O-ring for some reason so no seal. Probably fell out during manufacturing.  Guess I was lucky that it lasted as long as it did.  For you TK folks with the older setworks make certain that you check that connector and ensure you have the O-ring and also that it is torqued up snug into the ring so that water does not work its way in.

[doc henderson]

Tasha I am glad you are getting up and running.  I felt supported by TK had a good experience with the encoder company.  So how did they tell you to trouble shoot the box?

[Tasha]

Ideally if you have an O-scope it would be really easy.  I do not, so the methods described are using a VOM.  Actually I got two different methods from them.  One from one guy and the other from the head of the department.  I built pigtails with M12 connectors one female and one male so that I could test either of the  units; setworks or encoder as well as the rather lengthy cable. 
Initially I did the tests on the mill but eventually repeated it off the mill.  It helps if the female M12 has a long pigtail so that you can work at ground level when the encoder is still on the mill. On mine it is at the top of the frame.
There are 5 wire/pins.  The encoder only uses pins 1-4.  Pin 1 is powered by positive voltage. It has a wide range but in our case 12 volts. Pin 3 is common/ground. Pin 4 is the "A" channel and Pin 2 is the "B" channel.  The two channels are 90 degrees out of phase on the commutator but unless you have an O-scope it does not matter. 

Setup for test:
Jumper 12 volts to Pin 1
Jumper ground to Pin 3
Set jumpers to connect your VOM:
Measure the "A" channel with your VOM between Pin 4 and Pin 3 (grnd)
Measure the "B" channel with your VOM between Pin 2 and Pin 3 (grnd)

Now the two methods
1.  Pull the draw wire  VERY, VERY slowly and monitor the voltage on A and B channel. Unless you have two VOMs you have to do it separately.  The reason you have to do it slow is that the voltage  flips 200 times per inch (12 volts to 0 volts)(remember we can measure very small movements of the head on these mills.  I tried to do about 1/32 inch per second.  Our setworks measures in 1/16 inch increments.  The encoder commutator is 200 cycles per inch.
2. Easier technique.  Pull the draw wire 4-6 inches per second and you should measure around 6 volts on both the  A and B channels separately.  That is because the voltage is flipping 12 to 0 and with the speed it should average out to 6 volts or so they told me.

Now when I did the test all I got was 12 volts all the time no matter what. That is because my unit was broke and broke pretty bad.  I will get it back fully repaired with shipping time probably on Tuesday.  Unfortunately the mountain pass that UPS has to drive through is closed until at least Sunday (yes that bad, never happened for that long in that past 30 years, normally 12 hours max)

Full disclaimer:  Now, my unit never passed the tests and when they got it they verified and verbally told me what was wrong so I never saw this work/test correctly.  I will do these tests as soon as it gets back so that I fully know and have seen what a properly working unit looks like doing these VOM tests.  If something different happens I will post back. 

One thing that I found that I had no idea about as I had never inspected the encoder this carefully before.  Mine is on a Diesel model. I do not know what the other mills (TK2000/1600) location and mounting is like but suspect it is identical.  The unit is mounted at the top of the frame and the draw wire is pulled in a downward direction.  This puts the weep hole on the up side of the encoder.  Thus if it rains, water runs into the cube that contains the spring coil and pools as there is no way out.  The weep hole is designed to face down not up.  Talking to the repair tech he is going to put a set screw in the weep hole so that water does not infiltrate the coil spring side.  The hole is actually threaded so not hard to do.  You might consider that option if you wash your mill or it is ever out in the rain as there is no point of having water go in the drain hole since it points up and not down.
Hope this helps!

[doc henderson]

It does.  I was also told mine was damaged as the exhaust blew in that direction and they now are made with a shield.  I considered altering the exhaust, and as mentioned, to change to a R sided muffler.  I do not remember seeing a weep hole, but I will recheck mine.  and need to make that shield.  sounds like you have some skills.  thanks for the info.  I have a good relationship with Timberking.  they are a sponsor of the forum, and I will see if this info helps them.  I suspect they may know this but are unable to convey all this to a typical customer.  @Will_Johnson 

[Tasha]

Now, my unit never passed the tests and when they got it they verified and verbally told me what was wrong so I never saw this work/test correctly.  I will do these tests as soon as it gets back so that I fully know and have seen what a properly working unit looks like doing these VOM tests.  If something different happens I will post back.

The repaired unit came back and I tested it to see if a functioning encoder worked (tested) as was described.  It tested exactly as was described in both method one and two.  Bottom line both methods are very good to check your encoder if you have doubt as to what item is causing your problem. Very easy to do.  
Always asking questions and always learning.