Norway spruce for dimensional lumber?

[wernerbrandes]

New member here. My wife and I bought a 120-year-old home on a 2-acre piece of land about 50 miles outside Chicago, IL, USA. Plenty of the lot is wooded, and overgrown throughout. I've got 2 massive norway spruce trees right up on the house that are going to be coming down in the next week or so, and I am trying to decide whether it's worth it to keep the trunks for milling (dimensional lumber). I am a beginner homesteader who has a) passion, b) a knack for research, and c) some trades experience, but not much experience working with timber (yet).

These beasts are, as expected, straight as can be, and very tall (~80feet tall, base of one is ~29" wide, base of the other is 24" wide). It's probably not a shocker that this is a project house and there's going to be a fairly steady need for dimensional lumber over the course of the next few years. We have these two huge spruce trees, as well as a lot of black locust on the property that's going to get cleared out. In most cases, these are trees that have been growing for anywhere from 50-100+ years.

• Is it best to mill spruce while it's green?
• Best to leave as slabs, or cut it down into boards right away?
• I've read that spruce is a little stronger than pine. Wondering if that's true and if so, perhaps I'm better off milling the spruce into beams?
• Is resinous wood like spruce tougher on saw blades/mills/chainsaws?

I realize there are a number of questions above — feel free to pick it all apart. Thanks in advance for your time and consideration! I've been lurking on this forum a while. So much good info on here! I'm excited to finally have some wood on the ground.

[Don P]

It has been "admitted" into the dimensional lumber tables. It should be on the span calc and in the Supplement on the publications page at awc.org. from what I've seen when looking up european NS is it ran about 25% weaker than SPF design values.

Yard tree, expect metal :(. The locust is the post and beam stuff if its good, its strong enough to usually work in 6x dimensions. It is exceptionally dense.

[barbender]

I don't want to burst your bubble,  but if it is a yard tree they tend to have a lot of big diameter limbs. They don't make very good dimensional lumber because the large knots really weaken the material. If you are sawing it into wider dimension stuff, like 2x8 or 2x10, you have a far better chance of getting usable lumber vs 2x4 that will literally fall in half at a knot. Those big knots have swirly grain around  them that really make a saw blade wander, too. I've seen that in both band AND circle mills before those guys start puffing their chests out😁 However, if these trees grew in the shade of surrounding hardwoods, and didn't develop limbs over 1" diameter it should make nice straight grained lumber.

[Resonator]

I've cut a lot of norway spruce into natural edge slabs, 1" paneling and 2x lumber. Yes, cut it green (fresh cut down) as possible. As said the knots will fight the blade and leave waves, plan on changing blades often, going slow, and use lots of lube. Also after drying a surface planer and jointer can be used to clean up waves. 

[moodnacreek]

First [this drives me nuts] all logs are to be sawn green. If you waited for those spruce to dry [they won't] you will have rot inside the log. If they are open grown they may have not only large knots but wind cracks inside. To have decent lumber from them is to have twice as much volume than you need so you can pick the good stuff. I saw that spruce all the time because that is what comes in here. Makes ok 2x and 1x boards.

[Peter Drouin]

no

[wernerbrandes]

It has been "admitted" into the dimensional lumber tables. It should be on the span calc and in the Supplement on the publications page at awc.org. from what I've seen when looking up european NS is it ran about 25% weaker than SPF design values.

Yard tree, expect metal :(. The locust is the post and beam stuff if its good, its strong enough to usually work in 6x dimensions. It is exceptionally dense.

Thank you! I've already felled several locust — they are literally everywhere. It is dense indeed. There are some gnarly ones here, but many that are very straight. I've read they are great for burning, and like you said, super rot resistant and good for posts. Appreciate the comment!

I've cut a lot of norway spruce into natural edge slabs, 1" paneling and 2x lumber. Yes, cut it green (fresh cut down) as possible. As said the knots will fight the blade and leave waves, plan on changing blades often, going slow, and use lots of lube. Also after drying a surface planer and jointer can be used to clean up waves.

That's a cool application. I am luckily flush with lube.

no

Easily my favorite reply. Thanks for simplifying it for me.  :D

I don't want to burst your bubble,  but if it is a yard tree they tend to have a lot of big diameter limbs. They don't make very good dimensional lumber because the large knots really weaken the material. If you are sawing it into wider dimension stuff, like 2x8 or 2x10, you have a far better chance of getting usable lumber vs 2x4 that will literally fall in half at a knot. Those big knots have swirly grain around  them that really make a saw blade wander, too. I've seen that in both band AND circle mills before those guys start puffing their chests out😁 However, if these trees grew in the shade of surrounding hardwoods, and didn't develop limbs over 1" diameter it should make nice straight grained lumber.

This is helpful. Both of these two NS have a ridiculous number of limbs, the majority of which are 2" or more. It's definitely knotty spruce. Sounds like that means no go on slabbing. Which is fine by me

First [this drives me nuts] all logs are to be sawn green. If you waited for those spruce to dry [they won't] you will have rot inside the log. If they are open grown they may have not only large knots but wind cracks inside. To have decent lumber from them is to have twice as much volume than you need so you can pick the good stuff. I saw that spruce all the time because that is what comes in here. Makes ok 2x and 1x boards.

Makes sense. I've been watching a bunch of stuff from the Shelter Institute and reading up about timber frame construction. I must have misremembered something I heard — hardwood dries differently than soft woods like pine/spruce. I thought there was some nuance to when you mill. But it makes sense that when it comes to uncut logs, right away is a good rule.

[barbender]

Logs don't dry so much as they degrade. The sooner they are sawn, the better. I have a working laboratory in my yard where I experiment with seeing how much degrade occurs in different kinds of logs as they age. Otherwise known as sometimes I don't get to stuff as fast as I need to😬😁 I can say conclusively none of my logs have ever gotten better while laying around😊

[SwampDonkey]

And degrading also means the bugs will turn some of it to Swiss cheese, but more so in the slab wood area, the sapwood. But once they get at it, the fungus goes in them holes on the backs of the bugs. And not long after your white logs become orange punky lumber because the logs have ground contact. You don't want that in the walls of your house. ;D

[moodnacreek]

I would rather have logs on the ground than off. They warm air on a log is worse than the cold ground. Logs are no different than picked vegetables, they can no longer cool them selves. They need to be cut and dried or refrigerated.