Pay % from a logger

[RobertJD]

 A logger has offered me 40% for good grade and 30% for low grade is this a good deal for me or is it to low i already have a 16 foot wide great road it's only 300 feet off black top road where he will load  and he says timber will all be a very short drag and the mill is around 40 mins away and I am in West Virginia  Thank you  

[Texas Ranger]

Don't know your location, but in Texas the logger gets around 25-30% of mill price, up or down depending on grade, mill location, site, and any other thing around.  To me the numbers are wrong.

[Oddman]

Round here it's generally 50-50 unless its high value stuff like walnut sometimes goes 60% to the landowner.

[Hogdaddy]

where abouts you located?  it would help 

[Wlmedley]

I think he is somewhere in West Virginia 

[Southside]

Other factors too are distance to ship the logs, size of the harvest, landscape challenges, etc.  Moving onto a 10 acre select cut with no roads and three brook crossing 75 miles to a mill vs a 200 acre clear cut, flat as a pancake, 10 miles to the mill will impact things.  

[nativewolf]

All good replies.  It also depends on how much competition, how many poor loggers.  The sad fact is that most loggers are not making a profit- they pay bills and a small salary.  Its very competitive as well.

Rather than worrying too much about the exact split in revenues I'd be worried about the  sale & harvest process:  STRONGLY recommend hiring a consulting forester if one will take the job.  

The consulting forester will:

• Estimate volumes, arrange a competitive bid sale.  Bids that should bring in more money than the average logger offers at first pass.
• Design a sale process that will comply with the state rules (which in WV can be a bit restrictive on the logger- lots of safety compliance and things like that) and monitor the harvest so everything goes smoothly.
• You will be paid before the harvest begins, the risk falls on the bidders.
• Monitor the post harvest rehabilitation- seeding skid trails, etc.
• Consultants get paid off the timber harvest receipts- from 5-15% depending on the quality & volume of the timber and overall value.  

If you are asking the question of what % is fair (and good on you for asking) I would strongly recommend trying to get a forester to manage the sale.  

[stavebuyer]

A forester representing the landowners interests needs to be independent and basically adversarial to purchaser and entity doing the harvesting. One person wearing all the hats is a conflict of someone's interest.

[Nemologger]

Around here most foresters put their 10 percent in their pocket, and you won't see them again. Its best to do your research and find a good logger with good references and work with him. 

[moodnacreek]

Around here most foresters put their 10 percent in their pocket, and you won't see them again. Its best to do your research and find a good logger with good references and work with him.

This is also my answer. Land owners that have or are ready to sell timber need to find each other and talk. One name will come up as the honest logger in the area. He will be busy.

[kantuckid]

Lots of loggers in my area and most are honest and hardworking as well. They vary greatly in equipment used, some have good well maintained skidders, dozers and trucks, others are sort of threadbare operators. Back when we had more pine post cutters and pulpwood cutters there were even more low end loggers & cutters often barely able to move their product.  
Asking a landowner definitely has it's limits given they are not likely to know the market nor forestry or logging. My wife's family has sold timber several times over the years, each time of which I knew they were getting a poor price for the timber given the entire setting information. I stayed well away from commenting other than to my wife privately as we had no involvement at all.
Given fuel prices right now the logistics are tough on all concerned. Talking directly to the loggers & foresters who rise to the top of your search will help the OP feel the choice is well informed given their side of the discussion.  
In my area, sawmill owners will readily share the names of loggers they know and trust. Some will go un-named. 

[Ron Scott]

Have a professional consulting forester appraise your timber to determine its minimum stumpage value and then put the timber sale out on bids among the respected loggers operating in your area. 

[Gary Davis]

the numbers look backwards to me 

[BargeMonkey]

 Hire a forester, as much as I hated to say it yrs ago, now i would rather cut 80% of these jobs with one because it's someone in between the logger / landowner, keeps the logger somewhat honest and the landowner from asking for so many extras the job isn't profitable. 

[Quercusrubrum]

It's definitely worth your time to hire a forester. Unfortunately, there is just too much variability in a harvest to know for sure what a good rate is. You only learn by making mistakes, and timber harvests occur so rarely, mistakes simply aren't very efficient. If you want to learn more about specific variabilities in a harvest, there is more info here: https://thetimberlandinvestor.com/how-much-do-loggers-pay-landowners-for-timber/

However, if you want to know the going rates for stumpage in west virginia, you can find a price report here: https://timberupdate.com/timber-prices/west-virginia-prices/

[air1514]

You don't need a forester if you have an honest and fair logger. It shouldn't be a problem for a logger to provide references.   It's been my experience with foresters in my area , that when a timber harvest is brokered by a forester, the landowner and the logger get less money because the Forester has to be paid for his services.   The percentage the landowner gets would be almost nothing if they paid the whole foresters fee so it comes from both the landowner and logger.  The profit margins are already so small that I'm not willing to take a pay cut to work with a forester so I don't even bother with those kinds of deals.   That's just my experience and my opinion.     I'm only talking about hardwood and small acreage.  Most of my jobs are 20-40 acres.   There isn't many large tracts of timber being cut in my area.  And most all timber is cut with a chainsaw because the land is to rough to use cutter machines.      I usually get a semi load per day on good days.  The big outfits get 2 loads per day and they have trouble finding enough timber to stay busy.   My area is nw Arkansas

[Cedarman]

I would not think of letting even the best logger log my woods without a consulting forester marking the trees.  The logger may be the best logger out there, but he is a logger , not a forest manager.  Your consulting forester should work with you to get your woods producing more good wood in the future.  Since my son is the logger, we use the forester to mark the trees by the hour. We take care of managing the logging and sale of the logs.  Cost of marking our 250 acres of timber is about 2 per cent of what we get from the logs.  He is helping me reach my log term goal of improving the quality of what is growing so I a can leave a money producing estate for  my kids.  Ian especially wants to keep the property, so I know he is doing a good job logging.  He has been through all phases of game of logging .
Very cheap in my estimation.
I would spend time researching for a good consulting forester.
If you hire one, walk with them a few days and listen to why they are marking certain trees and why they are not marking certain trees.  You and them should be working in concert to get the management done that you want.

[Ron Wenrich]

I never liked the idea of charging a percentage to mark and manage a sale.  I think it puts too much incentive for a forester to high grade a stand just for the cash.  I knew a few that would do that, and I can see some of their cuts that aren't that good.

By the same token, company foresters have the same outlook.  In my area, anytime the company forester marked the stand, all red oaks were cut.  Residual stands were heavy to soft maple.  Some loggers acting as foresters have the same bias tendency.  I had a partner that called this mining timber instead of managing timber.

When I was an active consultant, I would offer to mark a stand with a mgmt perspective for a landowner.  It could be done on a per diem or per Mbf basis.  They would get a bid perspectus, an appraisal, and a list of competent loggers and mills.  They could then manage the sale, if they liked.  I offered mgmt expertise and a knowledge of value. I also offered the same services to loggers.

[Magicman]

My 346 acre property has never been harvested without a Forester marking the trees to be removed.  It's much more about determining which trees to leave rather than which trees to remove.  I agree with Ron above, there are Foresters that are in it for the $$ and then there are true Foresters that are timber managers.

It's ironic that I have never and will never receive the benefit ($) of a timber harvest.  It's been select harvested about every 20 years so I saw my Dad make two and I had to make one in 2005 in order to buy the property.  It could be harvested now, but it is growing faster than any interest rates so I am content to watch it grow. 

The Forester works for me and not the timber buyer.  He marks, tallies, and handles the bidding process to sell the timber.  He is paid a % of the total timber sale.  The Forester will make periodic visits during the harvest.  Most loggers here are hired by the timber buyer. (sawmill).

[Magicman]

EDIT:  Timbered property is a long term investment and if the timber sale is handled only for the income, then your business profile needs to be reviewed.  Your responsibility as a landowner is to manage for long term growth and stability.  What you leave after a timber sale is more valuable than what you take.

[ehp]

Here timber has to be marked by someone legal to mark it cause the county has to approve it to be logged, Forester I deal with does everything by the hour and its not cheap , last couple cost $260 to $300 an hour and that also means for him to do the paper work but its part of doing business , By % it really means what are you cutting , good grade timber the land owner gets far more than the logger , even the low grade here the best a logger is going to get is about 40% , Higher grade its less than that 

[Hogdaddy]

Here I cut 50/50 and give the landowner 60% of white oak veener and stave logs, and walnut.  Past times, with different market conditions I have gave higher to the landowner, but not now. I also pay for all the trucking, they're not out anything.  That's me, I'm a slow one man crew that log the land per the landowners request.  And I try my best to leave the woods in a  good shape for the future.

[Ianab]

I can certainly see the point of hiring a good forestry consultant to arrange a harvest. They are the professional in that field, have an actual degree and experience in the field. The average landowner may have some basic knowledge of forests, same way I have some basic knowledge of medicine.  (I don't claim to be a Dr). 

A logger can be 100% competent And honest, but again his training and experience is getting logs hauled out and to the mill. He should have at least some basic understanding of forest management, but it's not part of his actual job description. 

Forestry here in NZ is different as it's mostly plantation softwoods, so clear cuts. But even then there are harvest management companies that help the landowner get the best return. The logs get graded on the landing, and sent to the destination that gives the best return. Loggers generally quote them a $ price to log the stand, grade the logs for trucking, and load them out. But they generally are working based on a daily rate, they know how much it costs to run their machines per day, and how many days it should take (+ some profit), and that's the price. Those costs don't really change if they are hauling out $75 ton pulp wood, or $250 ton veneer logs. Likewise for trucking, it costs the same no matter the value of log. It's what's left over for the land owner that changes. 

So, harvesting mostly pulp logs on a 50 / 50 basis is a loosing deal for the logger. And 50/50 on high value (veneer grade) logs is probably ripping off the land owner. 

A good forestry consultant recognizes this, and should be able to work out the best options all around. Is the land owner going to get 25% for some very average wood, or 75% for a top grade harvest? Or maybe 50/50 actually works out fair?

[Kodiakmac]

In this neck of the woods, the ratio is 3 to the logger and 1 to the landowner. The loggers take care of the hauling.

[barbender]

Yes, depending on the species around here the ratio is probably about 10/90, up to 20/80, landowner to logger. We grow mostly low value pulp wood. A really nice stand of mature red pine might get a landowner 30-40%, if it is a decent sized tract.

Sometimes I feel bad telling people what their wood is worth. The only way the landowner will make money is volume.

I offered someone $22/cord for aspen, and $9/cord for balsam fir, on a small tract. They accepted it, I hope I didn't pay too much🤷

Being a big time logger, I shipped 1 (one) load of wood this winter. I got around $65/cord on the landing for it. Paid $22/cord for it. Not making much money with a cable skidder at $43/cord.