The Lombardini is Down!

[barbender]

Here's where things are at, folks- I did finally get my head gasket from Woodmizer/Kohler. Tore the engine down, was able to confirm head gasket failure without any other issues that I could see. It actually looked like a defective gasket that just took a while (2000 hours and 25 years🤔😁) to fail. So I replaced the gasket, also set the valves. Marty Parsons highly recommended adjusting the injector timing while in there, but I didn't have the required special tool so I bypassed that step.
 I got it all bolted back together and fired it up. The good news is it seems I got the cam timing correct (ah yeah, I replaced the timing belt as well) so that was good news. The bad news is my injector timing is certainly off. It still starts really hard, as in it fires but lopes and then dies. With some persistence, I can get it running. It smokes a bit of grey when idling, then it has a bit of a misfire when the clutch is engaged.

That was the point I got to when I got to where it was time to leave on our week and a half family vacation in the Bighorn mountains in Wyoming. I didn't think about that Lombardini too much up there, other than the fact that I think I can build the required tool for setting the injectors, as I can't find one anywhere. My intention is to saw a few very pressing orders the next couple of days with it running as is (which isn't horrible, just not quite right), get some cash flow going, and then re-examine the injector issue.

In the meantime, I have a machinist working on a stub shaft for the Kubota engine, with the intent to have that engine ready to go when the time comes.

Thanks for asking, Magic👍👍

[Walnut Beast]

I was also wondering how you were with that project when you were commenting on another post of something else. Good to hear 👍👍

[MartyParsons]

Yes you need to get the injector timing set. You will be amazed on how much better it runs. Enjoy your vcation. 
M

[barbender]

So another update- I've got the mill fired back up, and even milled a few logs. I did get an injection timing tool from Italy (came in like 4 days🤷‍♂️) but I didn't feel like tearing the mill back apart to time the injectors. Especially when I suspect it has a fuel issue, not related to the injectors.
 The engine has been starting hard for a while. Initially, I replaced the glow plugs (one was bad) and it was starting great for a few months, but progressively it was getting harder and harder to start. I tested all the glow plugs and they are fine. Now it is starting to run funky even after it is started. It acts exactly like it does when it is running out of fuel. Goes great, full power but by the time it gets to the end of a 16' log, she's gasping pretty good. So I trouble shot my filters, fuel lines, and fittings. I have it narrowed down to the lift pump, so I ordered one of those. I'm fairly certain it is sucking a little air in, hopefully when I replace that it will take care of the issues. I will still time the injectors at some point, but I'd be willing to bet money that once the fuel issue is resolved it won't really need it. It runs great initially😁

[LeeB]

Check the o-rings in the fuel tank quick connectors. It can suck air there if the suction side o-ring is bad.

[barbender]

Thanks Lee. Those quick connectors were eliminated long ago when they started leaking.  I even bypassed the water separator filter to see if it was causing the issue. It improved for a bit, which just adds to my suspicion that the lift pump is admitting a little air whenever it needs to pull a little harder. In fact, when I first bypassed it the engine started perfectly. I even ordered a new water separator base figuring it to be the culprit. And then the misfire showed it's head again🤷‍♂️

[Southside]

Have a tractor that is pulling the same sort of shenanigans on me.  Diagnose the problem, discover something isn't right, replace it - oh look, it's all better, a bit later nope, back to giving me fits.  Frustrating to say the least.   

[barbender]

Ok, I think I finally feel confident enough that I have my Lombardini running right that I am willing to stick my neck out and make an update. 

 Since my last post, I had installed an electric fuel pump and bypassed the mechanical lift pump that I determined to be the problem, to get me by until the new lift pump came. Engine ran great with the electric pump. When the lift pump came, I installed it. Some days it ran good, others not so good. What the heck? So I start going through the fuel system. New water separator filter and base, new fuel filter, new lift pump...hmm. Ok let's do a new tank from WM, too. Eliminated the quick coupler fittings. The past couple of days I can't make it to the end of a cut, and the engine almost dies. Sounds for all the world like it's running out of fuel. Did I mention I am pulling my hair out?😵‍💫 Pulled the main filter and base off, with the shut off solenoid. Inspect and clean all of it, fuel shutoff solenoid functions flawlessly and I can't see anything that would allow air intrusion. Could it be the new lift pump is faulty? Bypass the lift pump, reinstall the electric pump. It runs like a champ again. Now what are the chances of the new lift pump and the old one both being faulty? 

 So I'm thinking back to one procedure in the service manual. There is a  pushrod that comes from the cam to run the lift pump. The amount the rod protrudes from the block is supposed to be measured, and the rod replaced if the rod is too short. I never measured it...I suspect that when I do, I will find it is out of spec. If so, that will mean that I never had a bad lift pump in the first place, I had a lift pump that was being short stroked so it can't deliver enough fuel. Sigh. Well it runs good now, and that's all I care about!

 Failing to measure pushrod that cost a lot of extra money and aggravation!

[Magicman]

But.....you following through could very well help the rest of us that have similar engines.  Thank You and keep on updating.

[Southside]

Just like being short sheeted, lot of aggravation!!   :D

[Satamax]

Ok, I think I finally feel confident enough that I have my Lombardini running right that I am willing to stick my neck out and make an update.

Since my last post, I had installed an electric fuel pump and bypassed the mechanical lift pump that I determined to be the problem, to get me by until the new lift pump came. Engine ran great with the electric pump. When the lift pump came, I installed it. Some days it ran good, others not so good. What the heck? So I start going through the fuel system. New water separator filter and base, new fuel filter, new lift pump...hmm. Ok let's do a new tank from WM, too. Eliminated the quick coupler fittings. The past couple of days I can't make it to the end of a cut, and the engine almost dies. Sounds for all the world like it's running out of fuel. Did I mention I am pulling my hair out?😵‍💫 Pulled the main filter and base off, with the shut off solenoid. Inspect and clean all of it, fuel shutoff solenoid functions flawlessly and I can't see anything that would allow air intrusion. Could it be the new lift pump is faulty? Bypass the lift pump, reinstall the electric pump. It runs like a champ again. Now what are the chances of the new lift pump and the old one both being faulty?

So I'm thinking back to one procedure in the service manual. There is a  pushrod that comes from the cam to run the lift pump. The amount the rod protrudes from the block is supposed to be measured, and the rod replaced if the rod is too short. I never measured it...I suspect that when I do, I will find it is out of spec. If so, that will mean that I never had a bad lift pump in the first place, I had a lift pump that was being short stroked so it can't deliver enough fuel. Sigh. Well it runs good now, and that's all I care about!

Failing to measure pushrod that cost a lot of extra money and aggravation!

Well, i tend to delete the mechanic lift pump, whenever i need to replace  a mechanical lift pump. Makes bleeding easier, if nothing else. Done that three times so far. Always on perkins! ;D 

[barbender]

Yes, that is a lesson learned Satamax! I have a natural tendency to delete and cobble things together...so on my better equipment I try to do things right and keep it original. This time that inadvertently caused me problems, oh well😊

 Some of those Perkins were a real problem to get reprimed with fuel. I have some bad memories!😂

 Magic, as always, I hope the little bits I add give back for the great info I've gotten from others on the Forum👍

Southside, I'm 6'5". The sheets are always too short😁

[moodnacreek]

Reading these posts with great interest. Currently fighting a 3 cyl Kubota air in fuel problem. Also run a 2 cyl Deutz and a 1 cyl. EFI big flywheel diesel. You guys have nothing good to say about Perkins, you must be talking about the little 3 cylinder. My 06 4 cyl. has over 5000 hrs. and runs like new. Keep up the discussions so I know what not to buy, Doug

[barbender]

I don't know what model Perkins I worked around. It was a 4 cylinder, iirc, in a mid-eighties Cat asphalt paver. It was a good engine, just DO NOT run it low on fuel. One day, we were just trying to make the day, and taking turns pushing the primer bulb. We had run it low on fuel, and it just wouldn't clean up no matter what we did to it afterwards. So there would be a man on the deck of the paver, and when the engine would start to die down the paver operator could smack him in the head to push the primer faster😂 We tried putting an electric pump on that thing too. It's probably still out in the world of asphalt somewhere, giving someone fits😊

[Satamax]

Reading these posts with great interest. Currently fighting a 3 cyl Kubota air in fuel problem. Also run a 2 cyl Deutz and a 1 cyl. EFI big flywheel diesel. You guys have nothing good to say about Perkins, you must be talking about the little 3 cylinder. My 06 4 cyl. has over 5000 hrs. and runs like new. Keep up the discussions so I know what not to buy, Doug

Four cylinders 4.236 twice. And a 4.208 iirc. I think a friend did it on a 1004 too.
They are good direct injection engines. They don't like cold. And they need a "tip top" fuel system. Which is by design a bit fidley! The two way cav/lucas filter, while a good idea, is finally not one. With thermostart leaking and sending back bubbles into the filter, and the anti return ball and spring on the return line failing and allowing bubbles to come back in.
My 6.354 seems a bit less finicky with it's bosch pump. I have a 24v pump ready for the six cylinder.