DIY Scrap Iron Bandsaw Mill

[Tom King]

I have a bit of experience with wooden shingles.

Things that will make them last are plenty of air circulation- open purlins, not solid sheathing.

Overlap four times.  7" exposure requires 28" long shingle.  The old roofs I've found were overlapped only 3 times.  Four times exponentially diminishes the possibility of a split shingle causing a leak, and allows you to catch 2 purling with fasteners, whereas a 3 overlap only allows one.  One problem with a single fastener is that anyone who ever gets on the roof has to know how to walk on them.  Walking on an old roof has ended more than length of life.  They also had to hand split them.  It's much easier to split a 21" shingle than a 28" one, whereas with a bandsaw it makes little difference.  The appearance of the finished roof is the same.

The steeper the roof the better.  6-1/2 in 12 is as high a pitch as you can go and the shingle stay in place without having to hold it.  Most of the old roofs around here were built to that pitch.

Not under trees so it always stays clear of leaves.

Not too wide so splitting is not a worry.

Only fasten in the middle with one fastener so it can expand and contract as it pleases.  This is the way the really old roofs I've found still shedding water were put on.

Done this way with good wood, the fasteners have limited the life of the roof.  I use stainless steel medium crown staples in 2-1/2" and 2" lengths.  The long shingles allow you to catch two different purlins along the middle of the shingle.

A sawmill is a slow method to make shingles.  Using a 24" vertical bandsaw with a sled on it I made for making shingles, we can go from boards stacked on a trailer to a pickup truck load of shingles in about an hour.  That's with me and two helpers, including ripping the sapwood off the boards as the first step.

You can find pictures on my website.  The Cedar shake roof on our house is 43 years old, and still has a lot of life in it.  That was before I made shingles myself.  Put on according the the Shake and Shingle Bureau, you will be lucky to get 30 years out of any wooden shingle roof.

We found one  original 1850 wooden shingle roof under a 1982 installed Terne tin roof that had been the only roof on that house for 132 years.  Only the old hand forged nails were failing.

Find the page on my website titled   Cypress Shingles.    I'm not sure if I'm not supposed to post a link here.  Google might be the quickest way to find it.  There are a bunch of pictures, but the software the website was built with is no longer supported, so I can't correct any errors it's accumulated.

[Crusarius]

My final cut thickness is set to 3/4". I have stops set so the blade stops at the minimum height so I cannot cut into the cant holding points.

Since I have started playing a lot with my CNC and laser engraver, I have been making a lot of thin wood like Doc Henderson does. But mine is usually just 1/2" thick boards. That way I can still run them through the planer to clean them up before laser engraving.

at one point I built a cookie clamp for making cookies but the holding power was not up to my standards so it turned back into parts. One of these days I will build another one. I really want to be able to do long oval cookies for signs and stuff.

[fluidpowerpro]

Your going to find that a 2" last cut is more than you want. You might as well address it now.

[RetiredTech]

I have a bit of experience with wooden shingles.

Great information. I'll look up your site.
I don't have any Cypress to cut. How would White Oak hold up in the hot humid south?

[RetiredTech]

My final cut thickness is set to 3/4".

Your going to find that a 2" last cut is more than you want.

Hi Guys,
 I think you're right. I know I could just put a board on the bottom to cut the last one but that's going to get old fast. This is what you get when you have no plans and no experience with the thing you're trying to build.:D
 I'd think 3/4" would be about right for the last board. I've got plenty of room to raise the bed so it's not too big of a deal. It will probably mean a run the steel supplier at some point, unless something usable turns up. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
 This has been a fun project. I've learned a lot along the way. If I ever build a 2.0 it should go much smoother. Right now, I'm looking forward to sawing some logs.

[Magicman]

How would White Oak hold up in the hot humid south?

Yes.

[RetiredTech]

Hey guys,
  I'm still rolling around ideas for my moveable blade guide. Based loosely on what ljohnsaw created, does anybody have any idea how something like these linear rails would hold up in a sawmill type environment? I'm not sure about the rules for posting links so I'll just say, I see the smiling "A" store has "2pc SBR20-800mm Linear Slide Guide Rail with 4Pcs SBR20UU Bearing Block, Linear Sliding Guide-way Length 31.5 inch(800mm) for Fully supported Shaft Rod" for less than $50.00. Definitely not made in the USA. They claim to be rust resistant. The mill won't be out in the rain, but it won't be totally enclosed either. Basically just a roof with the container making a wall on the east side and possibly a partial wall on the North and South sides. The container is 40' long and my mill is only about 24'  long so the saw head would sit closer to the center of the roof than the end.

[Tom King]

I've built several things with those lineal bearing rods.  One is on a tile cutter and the other is for the shingle sled.  I haven't had any trouble with rust, but they get coated good with CRC 3.36 when put away.  I can't remember what size rods I used, but I'm thinking they were larger than 20mm.

White Oak heart should last good if all the factors in my previous post on shingles are met.  I know of some steep roofs in the mountains that lasted over 100 years with White Oak shingles.

We have White Oak siding on our house and barn, put up in 1980, and it's all still hard as a rock.  It never had any treatment on it, and gets pressure washed about every 10 years.

[Crusarius]

whatever you use you can't just rely on the cantilever to keep them straight. you can but even 20mm hardened linear bearings will bend. they bend a lot easier than you would expect.

Ljohnsons setup is the best thing you could do if you do not want to have some sort of support arm going to the sawing frame.

On my V2.5 I have pictured using his guide for the moveable side.

[RetiredTech]

  I do have 4 small v groove wheels. I think they were 2". Maybe I can work those in with the 1.5" square tube I have on hand. That may be heavy enough to work without additional support. I was thinking about a linear rail in front and one behind the beam. But it would be next to impossible to drill and tap mounting holes behind the front rail.

[Ljohnsaw]

That WILL be plenty stout enough.  My bar is 1" thin wall, probably .120 or even thinner.  It works great.  The farther apart you can mount the wheels, the better.  Maybe it flexes up at full extension but I have it adjusted that it maintains the distance perfectly.  If you need more pictures of how I made the mounts/adjusters for the V-groove wheels, let me know.  The mill is sitting in my driveway for the winter.  Getting another 3 to 4 feet of snow by Thursday up the hill :-\ 

[RetiredTech]

If you need more pictures of how I made the mounts/adjusters for the V-groove wheels, let me know.

 I couldn't see the whole plate where the bearings mounted, but I think I understand what you did. Four bearings two top and two bottom. I can't tell how far apart they are but that will be dictated by available space. Then I need some way to adjust how tightly they grip the tube and maybe the angle that it crosses the track.

[Ljohnsaw]

You got it.  What I did is make four identical adjuster arms that are 3" long x 1" wide and 3/8" thick.  That gives enough material to thread the 3/8" holes for bolts.  At one end is a bolt that allows it to pivot.  In the middle is a threaded hole to mount the wheel.  At the other end an adjuster screw pushes the bar towards the square stock arm.  This is mounted to a 1/4" plate that is 13" long (what I had on had).  That puts the wheels at 11" apart.  The adjuster arms are on the backside of the plate with the wheels on the front side.  Where the wheel bolt passes through 1/4" plate, it is an arced slot to allow movement.

In use, I tighten one pair to grip the arm.  Both the pivot bolt and the wheel bolt are tightened and lock the adjuster arm in place.  Then I tighten the bottom wheel of the other pair to raise the arm up to run parallel to the bunks.  Then I tighten the top wheel down to the arm.  Then, play with the tightness of both top wheels to eliminate any play/looseness.  It just plain works really, really well!

[fluidpowerpro]

Based on the amount of discussion on this topic I take it that the slide mechanism for the adjustable guide needs to be a substantial mechanism. On the other hand, I question the need for bearings and adjustments because on my saws, both from Hudson, the adjustable guide is simply accomplished by square tubes sliding in and out of each other. It has a locking bolt positioned on the corner of the outside tube so when locked, the inside tube is pushed to the corner of the outside tube. I acknowledge that Hudson is not considered a Cadillac of saws, but the adjustable guide works quite well. Maybe this design is possible because Hudson uses guide shoes instead of rollers?

[Ljohnsaw]

I think it comes down to ease of manufacture.  For the Hudson, I'm sure there is a jig that holds the parts in alignment before welding so the guide bar runs true.  Something a little more difficult for us shade tree mechanics to accomplish.  We're talking about a fraction of a degree - something that weld bending from heat can influence. 

My old tube-n-tube I used some washers to shim my mounts.  Worked good enough but sliding the tube-n-tube was neither quick (loosen two lock bolts, slide, tighten), convenient (under the saw frame) nor easy (not wise to do with the blade running).  With the V-roller design, I just flip a switch for direction and let go when it's where I want it.  And I can do it as I'm sawing, something I couldn't do with the tube-n-tube.

[fluidpowerpro]

I agree with the welding concern. Mine just has one locking bolt with T handle on it and I position it with the saw running, no problem. The more I think about it, I think the shoe guides have a lot to do with it. Because the guide is on both sides of the blade, it follows the blade while it's being adjusted. When adjusted properly, the guides do not put any pressure on the blade like roller guides. This means the final position of the guide is not as critical.
I know there are a lot of "shoe guide" haters out there but mine work good and I do cut straight lumber.

[RetiredTech]

mine work good and I do cut straight lumber

That's what it's all about. 8)

[RetiredTech]

That WILL be plenty stout enough.  My bar is 1" thin wall, probably .120 or even thinner.  It works great.  The farther apart you can mount the wheels, the better.  Maybe it flexes up at full extension but I have it adjusted that it maintains the distance perfectly.  If you need more pictures of how I made the mounts/adjusters for the V-groove wheels, let me know.  The mill is sitting in my driveway for the winter.  Getting another 3 to 4 feet of snow by Thursday up the hill :-\

I think I have some 1" thin wall too. Would you happen to have a part number for the bearings you used? I found the 2" v groove wheels but they are junk. The hole for the bearings was machined too large in all four wheels and the bearing just wobbles around and falls out of the hole. 

[RetiredTech]

 I was able to get the new wheels under the mill today. I didn't weld it solid in case I didn't like the outcome. I think these are going to work. It pushes much easier now and there is no side to side play when you push the mill from one corner. It feels solid and rolls easy.

This one shows the band clearance behind the wheel. With the blade guide mounted over the mill foot like this my last cut would be almost 2 1/2". I could gain a little extra depth by moving the guide to the inside edge of the post. The bottom adjusting bolt on the guide is sitting on the frame. Another option would be to add some 1.5" square tube to the top of the bunks.

[Crusarius]

you are going to also want rail scrapers.

[RetiredTech]

you are going to also want rail scrapers.

I left enough room on the end to mount some if it becomes a problem and I needed something for the track stops to hit besides the wheels. I'm hoping it won't be a problem. I was thinking about a piece of pliable plastic or thick rubber with a 90° v cut in it just touching the rail if it comes to that.

[Ljohnsaw]

Would you happen to have a part number for the bearings you used?

I got them on eBay.  Here is the listing title.
Quality RM2-2RS 3/8" V Groove Roller Bearing Rubber Sealed Line Track (8PCS)

Search that on eBay.  I paid $24.95 two years ago for a pack of 8 from VBX.  They are now $49.95!  3/8" is the hole diameter.  At the bottom of the VBX listing is another that only wants $29.95 for the same 8 rollers.

As far as scrapers go, cut a piece of plastic from a barrel.  Make it fairly close to the right cutout and mount it so it rubs.  It will wear to conform perfectly.

[RetiredTech]

Thanks, I'll see what I can find.

I didn't get to work on the mill today. I had some tractor maintenance to do and tried to install my new third function kit. Unfortunately it looks like Branson made some design changes without without letting WR Long know about it. The Third function kit is in preparation for my new Wicked Root Grapple. It should be useful for moving logs, but I mainly need it for clearing out mock orange bushes, small trees, cutting firewood, and cleaning up behind the people that thinned our pines.
Old Folk need all the help we can get.  smiley_old_guy

[RetiredTech]

Quality RM2-2RS 3/8"

 I ordered 4 of the bearings from Amazon. I don't really need 8 of them. Hopefully I can scrounge up some of the other materials.
 Worked on the tractor again today. Had to make a mount for the hydraulic valve on the third function kit. Finally got it all working.

[RetiredTech]

Swetgum will make board & batten siding, but do not allow any roof runoff splash up.

 I have a large shed with very little overhang on the East and West gable ends of the building. It's a pole shed with no floor. If I put a treated timber just above the ground and stop the siding 2-3" above ground level could I use the Sweetgum to close the ends up, or would that be too much water exposure?