Felling/Safety Training?

[RCBS]

GM,

Recently have the urge to get educated in the realm.  Just a landowner, no career planned.  My interest stems from wanting the ability to harvest some of my own timber.

I'm not a complete green horn.  Been around saws most of my life and have been using them in a maintenance/firewood capacity for almost 3 decades.  I have basic understanding of felling and safety that goes with.  I have felled some trees, mostly smaller with a couple of larger stems at times.  Short of getting hired on a crew, I do not know how to gain more knowlege about proper felling.  I've watched many hours of youtube helmet cams.  Problem there is they are not explaining their actions.  I see what they do, but do not know why.  Also, I never know if what they are doing is 'kosher' with professional standards.  I've watched some very slick saw slingers that are very impressive at getting wood on the ground.  I do not need 'production' speed from myself.

This course is fairly local to me.  I figure I'm going to be about $1000 in after buying required gear.  I'm slightly apprehensive in some aspects such as...will I learn $1000 worth of stuff?  I know that I will learn.  Already aware of felling plans, escape, hazard detection.  My past stumps have been mostly OK with an ugly here and there.  What intimidates me are the fatties.  28" DBH is fairly common in my woods.  Navigating these stems is what I need to learn.  Tension, compression.  Back leans.  Fore leans.  Wedge prowess.  Wondering how deep they go into these type of things?  

https://www.ohioforest.org/page/CSAW

Input, opinions?  Is there something better?

Thank You

[beenthere]

Well worth it in so many ways. Many of the ways are priceless, and many are very hard to describe in detail. If you avoid one costly mistake (injury, hung tree, crushed building or equipment, etc. ) your $1000 will be covered. Good luck, and hope you give us a review of the course. 

[RCBS]

Well worth it in so many ways. Many of the ways are priceless, and many are very hard to describe in detail. If you avoid one costly mistake (injury, hung tree, crushed building or equipment, etc. ) your $1000 will be covered. Good luck, and hope you give us a review of the course.

No structures should ever be in danger.  That's when it's time to call the limb swingers.  Hangers are super annoying.  I need someone to teach me about the dutchman and how to make them roll.  Also, instruction on dealing with a set back tree.  The only way I've seen someone get out of that so far is to beg the skidder for a push.  I suppose not ending up there is key.

[John Mc]

If you have the opportunity to take those classes, jump on it. Think of it as a chance to expand the range of techniques you bring to working in the woods with a chainsaw.

If you are using a chainsaw, you really should own most of the gear they list as required for the course anyway, so don't put that as the cost of taking the course: that's the cost of using a chainsaw.

[thecfarm]

Take it and ask questions. 

[Walnut Beast]

GM,

Recently have the urge to get educated in the realm.  Just a landowner, no career planned.  My interest stems from wanting the ability to harvest some of my own timber.

I'm not a complete green horn.  Been around saws most of my life and have been using them in a maintenance/firewood capacity for almost 3 decades.  I have basic understanding of felling and safety that goes with.  I have felled some trees, mostly smaller with a couple of larger stems at times.  Short of getting hired on a crew, I do not know how to gain more knowlege about proper felling.  I've watched many hours of youtube helmet cams.  Problem there is they are not explaining their actions.  I see what they do, but do not know why.  Also, I never know if what they are doing is 'kosher' with professional standards.  I've watched some very slick saw slingers that are very impressive at getting wood on the ground.  I do not need 'production' speed from myself.

This course is fairly local to me.  I figure I'm going to be about $1000 in after buying required gear.  I'm slightly apprehensive in some aspects such as...will I learn $1000 worth of stuff?  I know that I will learn.  Already aware of felling plans, escape, hazard detection.  My past stumps have been mostly OK with an ugly here and there.  What intimidates me are the fatties.  28" DBH is fairly common in my woods.  Navigating these stems is what I need to learn.  Tension, compression.  Back leans.  Fore leans.  Wedge prowess.  Wondering how deep they go into these type of things?  

https://www.ohioforest.org/page/CSAW

Input, opinions?  Is there something better?

Thank You

Read this from treemuncher and that should answer your question on taking the class. 
 treemuncher

Re: bore cutting with 372 xp - bar question
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2023, 02:30:32 PM »

I was taught the "open face bore cut" method or something like it at the Master Logger certification school that I attended back in the mid 90's. I was green with a saw at that time so I learned from the instructions, implemented them religiously and I have been able to safely cut since learning those techniques. Many thanks to the Tennessee Forestry Association for offering that class. The only tree that has nearly gotten me since then was a badly leaning willow where I overcut my bore and did not leave enough meat for the back cut. My bad. Fortunately for me, it was just an eye opening moment with a near miss and a quick lesson learned. I don't always use this method but if the tree is anything questionable, I always face it then bore cut to set my hinge width. The final cut starts from the back side ALWAYS in order to prevent stump pull or barber chair. I will often bore 90 degrees to and through the hinge in order to set a wedge when needed - another trick taught at that school. It was the best $100 I ever invested in my education. It saved me thousands in potential medical costs and insurance claims.

That class also taught me hardhat, glasses, saw chaps and safety brake. Gloves I learned from a severe impact injury with surgery to my left hand. When running my saw, the chain brake is set after EVERY cut. It never comes off until I'm in position and ready to make a cut and after the cut is completed, the brake is on again. I was really glad I started that practice the day I tripped and landed headfirst onto the bar with the saw running. Another day I cut through my first set of chaps and into my jeans, but not my skin, made me a believer to wear the things no matter how hot they are. As it is, I always work alone which breaks rule #1 with a saw. No sense in breaking the other rules if I really want to make it home. Take the time to do it right and do it safe, you will likely make it home that night.

As for the bar length, I run a 20", 28" and a 52". I used all three sizes on my 272 before it was stolen. I still keep the same 3 sizes for my newer 385xp. 85% of the time, the 28" bar is on the head and that gets anything up to 45"+. The 52" is hated due to the imbalance and weight although it makes life easier with really big trees. It's only used if I really have to have it, which is fairly rare, and it comes off as soon as possible. The 20" has great balance and is perfect for firewood and smaller trees under 36" at the cut but sometimes it's just easier to deal with the added weight and get the reach of the 28". Bar size makes no difference when initializing a bore cut - always start at the lower bar tip position and start cutting a slot. Once the slot is started and deep enough, the bar can't jump out and you can apply heavy cut pressure, safely.

Report to moderator    Logge

[RCBS]

Take it and ask questions.

Oh boy do I have some of those!

[RCBS]

GM,

Recently have the urge to get educated in the realm.  Just a landowner, no career planned.  My interest stems from wanting the ability to harvest some of my own timber.

I'm not a complete green horn.  Been around saws most of my life and have been using them in a maintenance/firewood capacity for almost 3 decades.  I have basic understanding of felling and safety that goes with.  I have felled some trees, mostly smaller with a couple of larger stems at times.  Short of getting hired on a crew, I do not know how to gain more knowlege about proper felling.  I've watched many hours of youtube helmet cams.  Problem there is they are not explaining their actions.  I see what they do, but do not know why.  Also, I never know if what they are doing is 'kosher' with professional standards.  I've watched some very slick saw slingers that are very impressive at getting wood on the ground.  I do not need 'production' speed from myself.

This course is fairly local to me.  I figure I'm going to be about $1000 in after buying required gear.  I'm slightly apprehensive in some aspects such as...will I learn $1000 worth of stuff?  I know that I will learn.  Already aware of felling plans, escape, hazard detection.  My past stumps have been mostly OK with an ugly here and there.  What intimidates me are the fatties.  28" DBH is fairly common in my woods.  Navigating these stems is what I need to learn.  Tension, compression.  Back leans.  Fore leans.  Wedge prowess.  Wondering how deep they go into these type of things?  

https://www.ohioforest.org/page/CSAW

Input, opinions?  Is there something better?

Thank You

Read this from treemuncher and that should answer your question on taking the class.
treemuncher

Re: bore cutting with 372 xp - bar question
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2023, 02:30:32 PM »

I was taught the "open face bore cut" method or something like it at the Master Logger certification school that I attended back in the mid 90's. I was green with a saw at that time so I learned from the instructions, implemented them religiously and I have been able to safely cut since learning those techniques. Many thanks to the Tennessee Forestry Association for offering that class. The only tree that has nearly gotten me since then was a badly leaning willow where I overcut my bore and did not leave enough meat for the back cut. My bad. Fortunately for me, it was just an eye opening moment with a near miss and a quick lesson learned. I don't always use this method but if the tree is anything questionable, I always face it then bore cut to set my hinge width. The final cut starts from the back side ALWAYS in order to prevent stump pull or barber chair. I will often bore 90 degrees to and through the hinge in order to set a wedge when needed - another trick taught at that school. It was the best $100 I ever invested in my education. It saved me thousands in potential medical costs and insurance claims.

That class also taught me hardhat, glasses, saw chaps and safety brake. Gloves I learned from a severe impact injury with surgery to my left hand. When running my saw, the chain brake is set after EVERY cut. It never comes off until I'm in position and ready to make a cut and after the cut is completed, the brake is on again. I was really glad I started that practice the day I tripped and landed headfirst onto the bar with the saw running. Another day I cut through my first set of chaps and into my jeans, but not my skin, made me a believer to wear the things no matter how hot they are. As it is, I always work alone which breaks rule #1 with a saw. No sense in breaking the other rules if I really want to make it home. Take the time to do it right and do it safe, you will likely make it home that night.

As for the bar length, I run a 20", 28" and a 52". I used all three sizes on my 272 before it was stolen. I still keep the same 3 sizes for my newer 385xp. 85% of the time, the 28" bar is on the head and that gets anything up to 45"+. The 52" is hated due to the imbalance and weight although it makes life easier with really big trees. It's only used if I really have to have it, which is fairly rare, and it comes off as soon as possible. The 20" has great balance and is perfect for firewood and smaller trees under 36" at the cut but sometimes it's just easier to deal with the added weight and get the reach of the 28". Bar size makes no difference when initializing a bore cut - always start at the lower bar tip position and start cutting a slot. Once the slot is started and deep enough, the bar can't jump out and you can apply heavy cut pressure, safely.

Report to moderator   Logge

Thanks for this post.  I don't want anyone to think that I hold myself above training.  I suppose I am a bit gunshy due to taking a 'chainsaw safety course' some years ago that was...meager.  It was not expensive, but I had expected a bit more out of it.  It basically covered everything that I had already learned and did not offer much detail on cutting and site/tree evaluation.
I believe I will take the course, though I may not make it to the one next month.  Will probably have to wait for the next one.  This is part of a larger plan that I am trying to work into fruitition.  Goals are still out front a bit but I'm gaining on them.  Will begin to work on getting some good gear together and setting aside some cash for tuition.

[RCBS]

Quick gear question....chaps or pants?

Do pants negate need for chaps?

Chaps...go for the heaviest for protection or lightest for comfort/agility?  33" inseam...go 'long' or 'short'?  There is no place around me to really try on any chaps so I will be ordering them 'blind'.

What do y'all recommend on chainsaw boots?  I'm having trouble with the $400+ price tag of some of them.  Do y'all wear em while working?  Rubber Viking style or Leather Loggers with kevlar?

Looking at a helmet from Ergodyne.  I got a regular Husky low end version, but I don't really care for it and I learned from motorcycling that you are less likely to wear gear that you don't like to wear.  I will admit that it has only been worn about 50% of the time based upon known hazards.  I don't have a problem with helmets.  I wear them 100% of the time on my motorbikes.  I think something a bit better quality and fit can convert my heathen ways on forestry helmets.

Thanks again to all of you for responses.  Input appreciated and for sure taken into consideration.  

[John Mc]

Yes, chainsaw pants negate the need for chaps. Which you choose is really a matter of personal preference.

Note that chainsaw pants are sized like regular pants: inseam and waist size. It's worth reading some reviews t make sure if they run true to size.

Chaps are sized differently: they are measured from the beltline down to the top of your foot (where the bow on your shoelaces would be). For the waist, it's basically "one size fits most" - the belt is very adjustable. If you are going with chaps, I prefer the "full wrap" style: the wrap all the way around your calf, rather than the  apron style which just covers the front 180˚ of your lower leg. Full wrap is hotter, but they are better protection. The heavier chaps obviously offer greater protection, but that doesn't do much good if they are so hot and heavy that you never put them on.

As far as choosing between the chaps or pants one thing I've noticed: In hotter weather, I find pants more comfortable than chaps (when the chaps are actually on). However you can remove chaps easily when on a break or you need to cool down.

[RCBS]

Recently happened upon another program out of WVU.  This would be a bit more of a drive for me and slightly more expensive tuition.

Chainsaw & Tree Climbing Techniques | Extension | West Virginia University

What catches my eye is the 'technical felling' note.  This is the stuff I really want to know.  Still pretty set on the OFA CSAW but am looking to see what else is avialable near me.  If I join up as an individual to Ohio Forestry Association, I can save $50 off each course.  Membership fee is $50/year...so 50 bucks savings really.

Anyone been through the WVU program?  Any reason it'd be better than the OFA?

[John Mc]

I would not be overly impressed just because an advertisement includes the terms "technical cutting" and "technical felling". Both programs are going to teach you techniques to improve your safety and your accuracy in directional felling.

Personally, I would steer clear of the tree climbing class at this point. If your interest is mainly in harvesting lumber or firewood, you'll be doing that from the ground. Tree climbing is a whole other world and another degree of risk. Focus on the ground work. It's pretty rare you'll have a need for tree climbing while working in the woods: that's more of a "get this tree down without smashing the garage it's hanging over" type of skill. If you have a regular need for those skills down the road, you can always seek out the training then.

[RCBS]

Have not climbed any trees since I was a kid.  No plans to change that.  I usually rent a towable man lift for stuff I cant't reach.