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Twin leader Douglas

Started by Timburr, May 20, 2005, 07:36:26 PM

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Timburr

I have a plantation of young Douglas (heading up for their 9th season) and a number of them have twin or multiple leaders. When they were 3 seasons old, I pruned out these leaders leaving the best. At 5 years I repeated the schedule and at 7 years noticed it was the same trees forking. It seems to me that these trees are genetically destined to grow this way and it doesn't matter how many times these leaders are singled out they are always going to divide. Is this so ???
The solution would be to waste them or cull them out as thinnings, yes?

Thanks Tim
Sense is not common

Tillaway

Could be, what percentage of your plantation and could you post a picture?

Check to see if something, frost, insects or some other pathogen is killing off your terminal buds.  I picture would help give a clue.
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Timburr

Tillaway, it's about 3% of the crop. Pictures are out of my limits for the time being.

The last few years have had a spurge of late summer growth and the buds set for the next season have burst into growth...we have a lot of this on all conifers in Britain. Some of these have then formed extra leaders,but only on particular Douglas.
As far as I can see the crop is healthy pathogen and insect wise.
I know a lot about terminal bud damage because I shear/shape Christmas trees.

This post has just given my tree on the left another leader ;D ;D
Sense is not common

SwampDonkey

Not a solution/diagnoses here but......We will get that late season growth (lammas) on conifers if it's wetter than normal in august, when it is typically dry. This has caused problems in plantations sprayed with glyphosate as it will kill the conifer. (Monsanto warns of this) I had a small section of my plantation sprayed before being aware of the problem and most of the balsam fir, white pine and some scattered spruce were nuked. The site was sprayed August 19th that year, usually not a problem.

My guesses are terminal bud damage from insect or climate conditions. But, the way you describe it, it could be genetic since it's in a small sample of the plantation and re-occurs on the same individuals. I've seen some odd growth patterns in spruce.

The wooly spruce - Link ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Tillaway

As the swampster said, lammas growth can cause multiple leaders, usually one takes over and is dominant but it sounds like it could be happening nearly every year.  Could be genetic, 3% does not seem too high or out of the ordinary.  We have nearly that percentage in our own plantations.
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Frank_Pender

You are so correct on that Tillaway.  I have run some experiments over the yers and found what I believe to be a genetice thing fro such trees.  I would cut the less dominating leader and the next year would find only one leader.  The following year would be a double and so on over a period of 7 years.   By the eigth year I would either prune at the gound or let  go for a few more years and make firewood. ;D
Frank Pender

Timburr

Tillway.We are all guilty of striving for the perfect forest...myself more than most.  I am very pleased with the growth of the crop as a whole.  It just bugs me when I give a lot of care and attention to the establishment of a tree crop and then the tree does it's own thing - ultimately nature is in control.

A lot of what you folks call 'lammas growth' occurs here because of our maritime type climate....rainy old Britain. The best nation in Europe for tree growth is Portugal because of adequate moisture and greater warmth.

SwampDonkey, there is no terminal bud damage. In fact the leader continues to grow, but on these certain  trees the lammas growth adds extra leaders to the original.

Frank, I like your 'hands on experience' approach and I will probably wait until the first thinnings to take them out...we have a good market for 2" to 5" roundwood.

Thanks all, Tim
Sense is not common

Frank_Pender

What sort of masrket do you have for such as the 2"?
Frank Pender

SwampDonkey

Some sawmills here take it down to 2.5 " top, but only off crown or freehold. I was hired to mark out 150 acres of this and trails last fall.  The guy who was hired by the sawmill to do the cutting quit because he couldn't keep the processor machine running. Too much down time. :-\ I couldn't believe the small piece size they were expected to harvest.  ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Timburr

Frank, the local farmers and DIY gardeners go berserk for the thin, straight 'rustic' poles....peeled or unpeeled. Farmers use them for patching hedges (until the hedge re-grows), fence work and small stock pens for sheep. Gardeners use them to make rustic frames for climbing plants and other garden sculptures.
We can't produce enough of our rustic poles to meet demand.
The larger sizes, we peel 'n point them and they are sold as round fencing stakes.
Because our woodland is a very steep valley side,  our thinning regeme, initially consists of line or rack thinning...felling and winching all trees in a planting line to ride-side (forest track). All trees (regardless of size) are then run through the processor and automaticaly graded to different spec.
It sure is a good way to utilize an other-wise useless stock.

Tim
Sense is not common

Frank_Pender

Thank you, Timburr.  Here we use such sizes for chip & saw fiber and some some cases itsimply goes to the burn pile or left on the forest floor to decay.   In more cases than not the fiber is sent in for chip & saw.
Frank Pender

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