Timbor able to kill PPB?

[Tony Sawmill]

Hi all-
I'm trying to confirm if spraying timbor on green pine will kill any active Powder post beetles boring into pine wood?  I don't have a solar kiln but seems my little bit of research indicdtes really only lion drying will effectively kill them?  

 

 

[Tony Sawmill]

Anyone have any insights on this?   
I sprayed the timbers.  One 8x8 I plan to use as a post has literally 3-4 PPB holes with a little bit of sawdust. I sprayed them yesterday and still a little bit of sawdust on that one post.  Not sure if the timbor takes a few days to work or perhaps the PPB on that one are too deep into the timbor to penetrate and kill them?  Any insights from other's past experience with timbor and larger timbers and PBB is super appreciated.  I am impressed with how much knowledge seems to be on this website!

[Old Greenhorn]

Timbor is not an insecticide. It will not 'kill' anything per se. The way it works is the insects have to consume it as they bore and eat their way around and the Timbor messes up their digestive tracts and they die. The basic ingredients in Timbor are also listed as an approved organic fertilizer. It takes time to work and they have to be active. What is the condition of your wood? Air dried for days, week, or months, or fresh off the saw? How do you know they are PPB, what is the evidence? How big are the holes? Where are you located? All these questions are very relative to your issue.

[Tony Sawmill]

Timbor is not an insecticide. It will not 'kill' anything per se. The way it works is the insects have to consume it as they bore and eat their way around and the Timbor messes up their digestive tracts and they die. The basic ingredients in Timbor are also listed as an approved organic fertilizer. It takes time to work and they have to be active. What is the condition of your wood? Air dried for days, week, or months, or fresh off the saw? How do you know they are PPB, what is the evidence? How big are the holes? Where are you located? All these questions are very relative to your issue.

Hi Old Greenhorn- thanks so much!  To answer your questions: Southern yellow pine milled to 8x8x10'.  Milled about 2 months or so ago but trees were cut towards end of May so just this start of summer 2023 and sat in the yard with the bark on.  I know...not ideal and should have milled to cants or debarked them so lesson learned!  I suspect PPB bc of the small pinhead sized holes and the little pile of sawdust at each hole opening as shown in the pics of my first post.  Holes are about the size of a ballpoint pin point or maybe 1/16".  Only a few of those holes on one of the 8x8's I plan to use for posts.  But as I understand it, the small hole and pile of sawdust at the hole opening = PPB of some type...?  I'm new and learning so I could be wrong?

[Southside]

I don't believe those are PPB's, could be an Ambrosia beetle given they sat around for a bit. Any discoloration around the holes?

[customsawyer]

I'm betting that ambrosia beetles got in the logs over the summer. They don't like the wood once it starts to dry. Thus you are seeing them leave. PPB don't get into the wood until it is dried down a good bit. Something like below 25%. 

[Tony Sawmill]

hmmm...I think this would be good news if they are in fact ambrosia beetles!  Most of the holes all have a black to grey-ish colored ring around them at the surface.  From googling that it sounds like that is fairly common to see if they are ambrosia beetles.  And sounds like they will go away on their own as the wood dries, yes?  I did spray with timbor.  From your all's experience when you spray with timbor (15% solution) does it take a few days for the bugs to be killed off?  Literally only a couple of active holes on one of the posts...just don't want to wake up one day and find my entire timber frame pavilion turned to sawdust.  :D 
Thanks all for the helpful and insightful replies...it is super appreciated!!

[Old Greenhorn]

Next time, spray it as soon as it comes off the mill. You are very lucky you didn't get pine beetles because you pretty much followed the perfect recipe for setting them up with their favorite habitat. Those guys you can actually hear munching on your wood and you will get larger, more coarse frass piles.
 I did not know ambrosia liked pine at all. I thought they went for hardwoods only and prefer maple. Who knew? ;D

[Broncman]

Pine in the south or in general are not affected by powder post beetles...but there are about 5 pine bark beetles that attack pine.

Black Turpentine Beetle are what was in my last white pine I milled. I treated the wood with Demand CS and then the kiln got the rest. There was hundreds of dead crunchy beetles in the floor of the kiln.

I ran a longer sanitizing cycle as well. The lumber has a lot of worm holes and the wife actually likes the look so it is going to be made into interior door panels for our log house.

Those beetles are already in the wood. You can see the tiny black holes in those boards!

Google pine bark beetles.  They make holes  that are very small... these amagnified... alot!


 

 

[sawwood]

I cut mostly  white oak and I have seen those type of holes with piles of sawdust on the face of the board.  We have a solar kiln but have never run it high heat to kill any bugs. I know now that I need to set the temp high at the end when the lumber is down to 8 or 9 %/  But what can I spray  before I air dry  my lumber ? 

[Broncman]

I use a pesticide called Demand CS or Demon CS. Safe  for pets .  The technology leaves micro capsules that stick to insects.  Lasts on surfaces 60-90 days and kills them dead. I use that for anything crawling  and spray it around my mill. Kills borer  bees as well. All they have to do is walk across it. Amazon carries it as well.

Timbor for stacked lumber as well for long term.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

One good key to identification of the lyctid PPB is the club like growth on the end of the two antenna.  The second picture I very clearly shows these.

The ambrosia PPB iss different.

The lyctid PPB likes drier wood...main 18% MC to 8%MC.

The chemical like Tim or must go deep enough into the wood, softwoods never have lyctid PPB)to poison their food supply.  A single Spatt treatment often is not deep enough.  The female has long a tube that sticks out her rear when she lays eggs.  This tube goes done into holes, nooks, and crannies, so the eggs might be laced deeper than the treatment poison.

Of course, any existing PPB are likely deeper than any casual treatment of dry wood.