Need More Volume! - Woodmizer MR200 Multi Rip

[Willski55811]

Hi there, I am just getting into my second year of running my business. I took it over from a guy that had been running it solo for 40 years and was looking to retire while I was looking at getting deeper into milling and selling wood. I've learned a lot this first year and without getting into too much detail, I need (and want) to produce more volume.
 
I cut somewhere around 50,000bf last year but that was with a relatively small portion of my time actually running the mill. The other time is taken up by stacking, running the kiln, running the moulder, sales, moving snow, etc.
 
I currently run a Qantrell 48" circular mill with a vertical edger, all hydraulic log handling and setworks run from a cab. I can typically produce about 400 bf/hr of stacked wood.
 
I have a really good market for paneling and rough cut 2x6 tamarack (or larch depending on who you are) which is where the increase in volume is needed. Basically need to cut a bunch of 1x6 and 2x6.
 
I am going to be hiring at least one employee soon and am looking at a gang saw or resaw to add into the mix. A resaw or even a multi head resaw seem to take up a serious amount of space while accomplishing the same task as a gang saw, as well as not as fast. This lead me to the Woodmizer MR200 multi rip. Does anyone have any experience with one of these? I can't really find much out there on it except for a video from woodmizer Europe. Is there another brand out there that makes a similar machine?
 
Adding this in my main saw would just cut two sided 6" cants and send them down the line to the gang saw to cut them in to 1x and 2x material in one shot.
 
Seems like it would be something like a $100,000 investment but I am confident in my markets and believe I could support it and keep it fed.
 
Would love to hear any feedback on the machine, the idea, or criticisms as well. Thanks!

[SawyerTed]

I dont have experience with the Woodmizer gangs but do have a little experience with bigger manufacturers of gang saws - USNR, TS Manufacturing, McDonough etc. 

The sawing speed would be my concern.  Will that machine saw enough linear feet per minute to keep up with the head saw making two sided cants?  

The other question is what is involved in switching between products, 1x to 2x material?  If it's too involved, the production will not be what you want. You'll spend too much time doing change overs. 

The bigger machines can be set up with "pockets" or groups of blades set for different thicknesses.  Where the cant goes through the machine determines what's cut. 

You may already know that.  My biggest concern would be whether the Woodmizer would keep up with the head saw?

[Willski55811]

Thanks SawyerTed, those are all good questions. I will have to take a look at those brands you mentioned, a quick google search only brought up the woodmizer when I was looking. 

As for the gang saw keeping up, I am fairly confident it would be able to keep up with the head saw. The vertical edger I have is very nice for eliminating an additional step in the process but does slow me down quite a bit. Having a separate edger is another thought for another time!

So it wouldn't be just two cuts with the head saw. For a typical 12" diameter log let's say two cuts per face to whittle it down to a 6" cant, moving the edger after each cut. I bet I would be around 2-3 minutes per log. 

The MR200 says it has a feed rate of 5-50 feet per minute. If it was conservatively running at 16'/min on 8' material that would be 30 seconds per log. 

That would leave a little, very little time to stack but that can also happen afterward if needed. Nice thing about the tamarack is I don't sticker it so stacking happens fast. 

As for switching from 1" to 2", I know it would definitely eat up some time but I think the quickest I would change over would be once a week, but most likely it would be 2+ weeks of running at the same thickness.  

[SawyerTed]

It's probably best to be skeptical of the manufacturer claims of production until someone with first hand experience can verify.  It's pretty common among the portable bandsaw mill manufacturers to give production numbers based on ideal conditions with ideal labor, logs etc.  That's on a limited run versus production over time.  

Discounting manufacturers numbers by 30-40 percent, or more, isn't uncommon if Woodmizer's stated numbers are like the numbers for their band mills. 

We know our conditions are typically less than ideal. 

To really increase production, cut the log to a 6" cant in two cuts.  Send the cant to the gang, send the slabs to a multi-head resaw.  No carousel needed. 

[Willski55811]

Yes that is definitely true, I ran an LT35 before this and of course the marketing is, well, marketing. 

For this machine I figured using about 30% of the stated max ft/min would be pretty safe. 

If I was able to truly do two cuts down to the 6" can't and send it on that would be amazing! All in time though. Just trying to find what then next best piece of equipment would be to add to the line. 

Like you said it would be best to hear some first hand knowledge on it and the lack of that is making me a bit hesitant, I guess we will see if anyone shows up!

[SawyerTed]

You may not be aware of one of the unwritten rules of the Forestry Forum.

That rule is we have free rein to spend other people's money indiscriminately.  It is, of course, easy to spend your money for you.

[longtime lurker]

I looked at the paperwork on one of the big woodmizer multirips a couple years back, exchanged a couple emails  with the Australian woodmizer dealer, got as far as talking to the guys who actually build them in South Africa.
I was exploring options and for me it didn't pan out but that was nothing to do with WM or the machine itself as much as where I was at and where I saw my business going. Gangsaws are great at punching through tons, but not the right equipment when you're chasing grade. Unless you have very consistent log quality you are going to have to accept a degree of loss of value by turning everything into one size and then grading what you get. For me as a grade operation as the grade drops my sizes tend to change to get higher value products... so yanno flooring and decking product comes out the jacket at 6x1 and then we chase 6x2 structural grade rather than 6x1 pallet grade on the inside of the flitch. Upside is I make more $ out of a given log, downside is a higher cost of production because we saw/look/saw instead of saw/saw/look.

One of the options though is to set it all up to centre your cant to the gang... puts your pith board in the same place in the middle of the gang every time and you work on out from there with your collar spacing. That requires a centring infeed but that isn't rocket science 

[moodnacreek]

Interesting subject. Being that everything is 6" wide and soft wood and not grade sawing sounds like a bull edger with heavy power might work.  Another thought, if low production like me, a sash gang mounted high with some kind of water fall slide on the out feed. Stick 6" cants in and have a pile of product to sort at the end of the day. Kinda like the old timers with the edger mounted over the husk.

[Ron Wenrich]

The things I would look at is how big of a market do you have for this material.  You can expand production, but you need to have a market that will take it.  That $100k looks to be pretty hefty, especially if you have to put in additional labor.  There are used single head resaws with run arounds that look to be a better deal for a small operation. 

How much do you want to increase your production?

[Willski55811]

flooring and decking product comes out the jacket at 6x1 and then we chase 6x2 structural grade rather than 6x1 pallet grade on the inside of the flitch. Upside is I make more $ out of a given log, downside is a higher cost of production because we saw/look/saw instead of saw/saw/look.

One of the options though is to set it all up to centre your cant to the gang... puts your pith board in the same place in the middle of the gang every time and you work on out from there with your collar spacing. That requires a centring infeed but that isn't rocket science

Currently I do a little bit of grade sawing but fortunately/unfortunately I don't have enough time to do it. When I am cutting I need to produce paneling blanks for product that is already sold (and behind schedule) which makes me throw everything into the same pile, as painful as that can be sometimes.

My thought is with my hypothetical system i can use it to fill the orders as well as grade saw when I have a little extra time and need to restock my retail yard. 

I did to a little digging into a centering infeed, couldn't find much but I have a couple designs sketched out that wouldn't be too difficult.

[Willski55811]

.....have a pile of product to sort at the end of the day. Kinda like the old timers with the edger mounted over the husk.

That's basically what happens now, I mill for an hour or so and fill up my green chain then shut down everything and sort out the pile. Works ok but sure is nice when I have a helper stacking as I am cutting!

[Willski55811]

The things I would look at is how big of a market do you have for this material.  You can expand production, but you need to have a market that will take it.  That $100k looks to be pretty hefty, especially if you have to put in additional labor.  There are used single head resaws with run arounds that look to be a better deal for a small operation. 

How much do you want to increase your production?

Every board I cut currently is already sold, and I turn people away much more than I would like. I do see those resaws pop up every once in a while but they always seem to be in the south east, at least that is my excuse for not considering them more. But you may be right, I could set up the flow very similarly and test it out with a more affordable resaw and if it proves to work well I could look at expanding again.

As for increasing production, this may sound ridiculous but I believe if I was able to 4x my production I could move it relatively easily.