Woodmizer Sawdust Burner . . . . .

ElectricAl · December 04, 2007, 08:41:33 PM

Greg,

QuoteI do hope ElectricAl gets one so he can use the hot water to melt all that ice!

It's going to take a bunch

We have spread 10 wheel barrow loads of red hots from our 3 outdoor wood burners. That is just to clear the concrete for the fork lifts to move logs and lumber. There is still 600' of concrete road that needs treated :-\ Did I mention its snowing on the ice right now :( Looks like 4-5" by friday. :-\

Doug,

Looks like we have even more to talk about now ;).
Like you we have access to spoiled grain too.
I think testing "hard to get rid of " products is going to be the GREEN thing to do.

Bioman,

QuoteWe are imposing a news blackout on the cogen project - in a good way

Oops

Jeff · December 04, 2007, 09:07:38 PM

Big congrats to the Forestry Forum members getting the phone calls. I'm sure proud that you guys are part of this.

ElectricAl · December 04, 2007, 09:40:46 PM

The Forestry Fourm is were the world comes to learn 8)

Bioman · December 04, 2007, 11:53:20 PM

I'm headed out of town until next Tues. I'll check in when I can.

Greg Cook · December 05, 2007, 05:17:23 PM

Ronwood,
We have ordered a 4024 Magnum inverter which has the ability to supply 240V without needing to piggyback another inverter. Supplying DC power to this will be 16 Unisolar 64 panels, which will (on paper) supply 1,024 watts of DC per hour. I'm wiring those at 48Vdc output which the charge controller will step down to 24 volts for the battery bank, eight Trojan L16's.

Even if the co-gen system didn't put out 1 KW, you have the luxury of getting that 1 KW for 24 hours a day. What I wonder is, supposing I want to run a Bio-Mizer in the summer for power, will I have to supply a heat sink to to absorb heat from the water and keep things running as they are designed? Or will this be a cool-weather only power supply?

Thanks for the interest,

Greg

Bibbyman · December 05, 2007, 09:09:51 PM

Do we know all the names of the Bio-Mizer test site people?

I know one name and rumors of a couple of others.

Who are they? How many test units will be out there soon? Some later?

farmerdoug · December 06, 2007, 07:04:04 AM

Bibbyman,

There are 20 test units going out at first. There maybe more later.

The short list I have gathered so far is;

Electric Al

Farmerdoug(me) 8)

I am interested in finding out where the rest of the units are going too. I guess we will have to wait and see if Bioman can tell us.

You can checkout Biomizer's forum on their website also.

Farmerdoug

Bibbyman · December 06, 2007, 07:56:44 AM

Quote from: farmerdoug on December 06, 2007, 07:04:04 AM

You can checkout Biomizer's forum on their website also.

Farmerdoug

I did. But I didn't find out any more exact informantion. At least at that time.

Paul_H · December 07, 2007, 09:57:21 PM

Congratulations Farmerdoug and ElectricAl.This whole subject is facinating and we're looking forward to your reports.

ElectricAl · December 08, 2007, 06:55:17 PM

Paul,

Next week we get to make a payment and get the site preparation plans. ;D
I hope there is a section on how to install on a snow drift.

We are froze down 6" then 1" of ice and then 6" of snow. :-\
I think we have 45 days to get hooked up and going. ???

The plan right now is to use red hots from the outdoor wood burners to burn down through the snow and ice. Then build a wooden platform and level it with cribbing. Might put a couple tie backs on the BioMizer just in case it settles funny in the spring.

beenthere · December 08, 2007, 07:52:27 PM

Electric Al
Seems around here that our snow cover is drawing that frost out of the top layer of ground, as it insulates the ground from the cold. Keep the snow on top as thick as possible for as long as possible would seem to help the most, even piling it deeper.

Looking forward to the results of all your efforts..

ElectricAl · December 08, 2007, 08:59:11 PM

So Beenthere's done that 8)

Good advice. ;D

We can pile more snow tomorrow. ;)

It might be 4-6 weeks before delivery, maybe the frost will go away.

Kevin_H. · December 08, 2007, 09:09:12 PM

hey al, I didnt think your frost went away until June. ;D

Looking forward to the updates...

farmerdoug · December 08, 2007, 10:03:53 PM

I am waiting on the site plans to see what they require for the base first. Electric Al, I already have the area leveled. ;) It was done several years ago when I first put in the boiler. Who says I don't plan ahead. :

:D :D

As far as hooking it up it is going to be plumbed into my Central Boiler. It is going right next to the boiler so the wiring and piping will be minimal. It will try to keep the boiler hot which holds 800 gallons of water itself so it will be definitly be tested. :

I think we will have alot of talking about this units here.

I see Marty Parsons was selected for a test unit too. We have to get him on here. I have heard that all of the sales service centers have been offer it first.

What I cannot beleive is that Bibbyman has not been testing one already. Or maybe he has and just cannot say anything. ;)

Farmerdoug

MartyParsons · December 08, 2007, 10:54:34 PM

Yes I am here. FarmerDoug, what are your plans for hooking the BioMizer to you existing system. We have a outside wood/oil burner boiler at the Wood-Mizer building. We will need to keep it at temp also. It has an oil burner hook up but it has never been used. We also have a similar system at our home with a wood hydronic / Radiant with a back-up oil furnace that runs as needed. as the wood fire goes out the oil furnace picks up and takes over. Well that is how it was designed to work but the oil furnace runs more than I like it to.
Maybe you have some suggestions?
Marty

farmerdoug · December 09, 2007, 11:06:02 AM

Marty,

I am leaning in the direction of hooking it right up to the CB unit. I am thinking of pulling water from the cold return port and sending it back to the hot water port. This means capping off one of the units. I am figuring on capping the Biomizer and putting the pump on the cold side to feed the water to the Biomizer. With the Biomizer capped the water will return hot to the CB boiler by itself. But I am going to have to discuss this futher with Bioman first.

Any other ideas are welcome.

Farmerdoug

ElectricAl · December 09, 2007, 09:27:04 PM

Kevin,

You got it right.

Doug,

We plan to hook up direct to our Heatmor 400 outdoor wood burner. This way we don't have to mess with the pumps for the building. The BioMizer will come with it's own pump, and we'll use it to pump to the Heatmor. We'll trigger the BioMizer pump off of the aquastat on the Heatmor.

Our system has straight water in it so we cannot be shut down for more than a few hours if it's real cold. Even though the BioMizer is a product of WoodMizer a very top notch company, we get TEST units.
There is a chance of a glitch. It is our responsibility to help find any bugs in the system and figure out a way to correct the problem.

Alternative fuel sources is an intriguing thought. I like the Chicken poo idea.

farmerdoug · December 09, 2007, 09:36:33 PM

Electric Al,

That is the way I am going too but I am wondering if we can cap off the Biomizer so the water will circulate back to the outdoor boiler and not out the vent.

How are you going to connect the pump to the auqastat? With a low voltage motor starter?

More questions will be coming. ;D

Farmerdoug

MartyParsons · December 10, 2007, 07:54:51 AM

We talked to BioMan about the poo and they have used it before. What we have available is young turkeys are raised from hatched birds for 5 weeks and moved to a different floor. The material they start with is Kiln dryed planner shavings, ( 53' van load with a walking floor) and they clean this material out every 5 weeks. The material is dry and around the edges of the walls is basic the same as it was put in very little poo. The main area has some clumps and we will need to see how this may work. I talked to him yesterday and they just received a new load of beddining that is finer than the shavings more like sawdust and that sounds even more usable. I plan on getting a load in a small trailer and see how it works in our outdoor furnace. The other poo they have on the other level for the older birds is nasty stuff I am not sure we would get any customers around if it was in the area. The moisture content will be an issue. I guess from what I understand the feed is what will not burn after it goes through the digestive system? We will do some tests and see how it works in the out door furnace and go from there.
We have Honeywell controls that operate our circulators that would work with the accustat. I will see if I can get the model #. In our new building we have a mixing tank and all of the zones are fed from this point. It is homemade. It is a tank and all of the circulators are hooked to and and the returns are feed into it.
Marty
Got to go!

stonebroke · December 10, 2007, 08:14:27 AM

Poo will burn. Down in Texas there is a power plant that burns dried cow manure. Must smell great. Course with all the feedlots they probably never notice. The only thing is you have to watch the moisture content.

Stonebroke

Furby · December 10, 2007, 06:38:16 PM

So what, someone goes around picking up cow pies ???

Bioman · December 10, 2007, 06:40:15 PM

Guys, I'm still traveling. We've already been delayed into Chicago, and looking at the weather I'm guessing it's 50/50 on whether we get home tonight.

I'm looking forward to catching up and starting the test process. We'll have a special spot on the biomizer forum for you test guys. We'll have video and special info that we'll be sending out pre-delivery of the machines. It will also be the place for you guys to share info back with us in a more intimate testing atmosphere.

I'll be back online sometime tomorrow.

See ya.

stonebroke · December 10, 2007, 08:02:49 PM

furby

They scrape it up off of dirt lots. That is all the pioneers had to cook with a hundred years ago. They must have gotten used to it.

Stonebroke

ElectricAl · December 10, 2007, 09:21:55 PM

Doug,

At this point I don't see any real problem with capping the BioMizer vent and relying on the Central vent. I would be inclined to use an automatic vacuum breaker. That way the tank is protected from implosion if the water would drain out fast do to a line failure.
I take it you want to close the loop to encourage natural convection?

This brings up an interesting issue, the Heatmor operates with up to 2 lbs. of pressure.
The BioMizer is vented......If the BioMizer can handle the pressure we might use the vacuum breaker on the BioMizer and let the expansion bladder on the Heatmor do it's thing.
I guess the BioEngineers will make the final decision.

Our aquastat is 120v and triggers a blower fan for the Heatmor. There is a switch down stream from the aquastat before the blower. We'll just shut off the blower switch while the BioMizer is in operation.

The Central has a similar set up to trigger the solenoid for natural air draft or the blower option.

We have a Central Boiler for the house. Boy that's a nice unit.

BioMan,

Did you get a chance to try some closed cell expanding foam as insulation?

Bioman · December 11, 2007, 10:16:28 AM

Al,

We have not tried the closed cell foam yet. We discussed it and were concerned about the foam at higher temps (300-350) needed when heating oil for the cogen unit. Honestly we never got back to it.

As for the vent, we'll be adding a pressure cap as well. It's simply a matter of screwing it into the vent fitting instead of hooking up an overflow hose. Probably costs less too...