How can I dye steel?

Jeff · March 13, 2003, 04:33:20 PM

I just had my old collar cracked headsaw turned into a work of art with a plasma torch. It looks great other then where the crack was it had to be welded, then ground in order for the pattern cut into it to hold. So I have this freshly polished color in the middle of the whole thing.

Does anybody know a easy down and dirty trick for dying steel either brown or black with easy to find ingredients? I don't want it painted and I don't want it rusty. Remember this thing is 56 inches so I can't hardly dip it.

Tom · March 13, 2003, 04:50:00 PM

How bout that rust killer stuff you get at the hardware store. It leaves the steel black I think.

carhartted · March 13, 2003, 04:54:46 PM

I would try gun bluing (sp?) I made a few knives last year and finished one with cold bluing procces. It turned it a nice black.

The bluing should be available everywhere.

Jonathan

ADfields · March 13, 2003, 04:57:11 PM

Now that can be a big list! Are you looking to match color or do the hole thing? The first thing that comes to mind is gun blue and you can find it at a gun store and some Walmarts. Next thing to my mind is colored wood paste wax in the color your looking for then cover with car wax, or boot polish and car wax is the same thing but darker colors. If you don't like them I have a hounded more, I did a lot of this stuff when I was blacksmithing.
Andy

Jeff · March 13, 2003, 04:57:50 PM

Is there a blue tint to the bluing? I don't want that. I had thought of that and picture gun steel. Now browing might be acceptable but I am not sure if I can afford it on this big hunk o' steel or how to do it for that matter. I was hoping for a "Get these materials out of your cupboard" type solution if possible. :D

Jeff · March 13, 2003, 04:59:36 PM

Andy, I want to do the whole thing. What I really want is an aged look without rust.

Jeff · March 13, 2003, 05:40:17 PM

Here is a picture of the saw. THe guy at the shop said he couldhave sold it for big bucks 6 different times before I picked it up. It looks dark in the picture but is not, but the difference you see in the glare is almost as contrastig as the actual spot that makes me have to dye it.

Bro. Noble · March 13, 2003, 05:52:53 PM

Jeff,

I used to do a little gunsmithing, especially restoring antique guns. Browning a gun barrel is much easier than bluing. You get a rich brown color with a redish tint.

Basically what you do is clean the metal well to remove any oil. Then heat it to increase the chemical reaction a real warm room or next to the furnace would do. Then you apply the browning solution which causes a light rust. You use steel wool on it to remove this rust and then repeat the solution. You do this until you get the amount of color you want.

You can buy browning solution anywhere they sell muzzleloading kits but it is basically vinager. I have used vinager with good results. If you are interested in doing this I can read up in my gunsmithing books to see if I have forgotten anything. I might have some other 'Browning solution reciepes also. You can have that thing looking really nice in a couple of hours.

Polish the whole thing before you start for best results.

Noble

Scott_R · March 13, 2003, 06:09:28 PM

Sprinkle with damp oak sawdust and let the tannin do it's stuff? Just a thought. Scott

Tom · March 13, 2003, 06:18:12 PM

Hey yeah, That would do it. !! "Course it may corrode the metal. My sawmill is in need of buildup welding where the oak sawdust has hit. Took a lot of years but it ate it up.

Jeff · March 13, 2003, 06:19:07 PM

Noble, that sounds like what I want to do. It is very clean right now. Please look up the recipes and procedures for me!

Scott I think the tannin will result in a bluish color. I don't think that will look as good as brownish or black.

Bro. Noble · March 13, 2003, 06:50:37 PM

Jeff,

I couldn't find any additional info on browning except that vinager acts slower than the commercial solution and the metal needs to be warmed more. I did find a reciepe for a black finish but it is more involved.

After removing all oil (this includes fingerprints) handle with clean cotton gloves. The warmer you can get it, the faster it will rust and it will cause the solution to dry fast. All bluing and browning of gun metal is a controlled oxidation process. I always used the oven of my wife's stove but you will need to think of something else for a sawblade. Even 'cold'bluing works much better if the metal is hot.

You might want to try this on an old skillsaw blade to see how you like the color. I would also suggest you price the commercial solution. I think what I preferred was called 'Plum Brown " or something like that.

You just clean-heat-rust-steelwool-heat-rust-steelwool-etc. When it's how you like it, you steelwool and oil it.

The saw looks fantastic by the way.

Noble

ADfields · March 14, 2003, 12:40:58 PM

I have a recipe for gun brown like Noble is talking of.

5oz. ethyl alcohol
5 fl. oz. ferric chloride tincture
1.7 oz. mercuric chloride
5 oz.ethyl nitrite, 4% alcohol
4 oz.copper sulfate
2.5 fl. oz. nitric acid, 70%
104 fl. oz. distilled water

That makes a gallon and you can cut it down for less. Must be kept in glass or plastic for storage. I have some others and how you use it I will post later. I got to run to town right now. :

Need something?
Andy

Texas Ranger · March 14, 2003, 12:59:34 PM

Clean it, rust it, and treat with phosphoric acid. It will turn a battleship grey to black, depending on the composition of the steel. High nickle steel will be light grey, cast iron black. But, regardless of the color it makes a good base to paint it with flat black.

Jeff · March 14, 2003, 01:35:17 PM

So, what would the best way be to rust it?

Gordon · March 14, 2003, 02:31:21 PM

What about a coat of wood stove polish, that might work.

The guy who cut that for you did a very nice job. I bet he did get some big bucks offers for it. Something different that the average person can't really get there hands on.

Gordon

Jeff · March 14, 2003, 02:54:53 PM

Gordon, I was working so I sent Jeremy after it. He told Jeremy to tell me if I ever got another one that I wanted to sell to holler right away. So I figure he must have gotten a big offer.

I don't know why it didn't occur to him, and I bet it has by now, to simply program in and cut out the saw shape. The plasma torch is all computer guided so i would think it'd be no big deal compared to sawing out tree limbs. If you didn't catch his web address on another thread, which I don't rember what one, its www.acewelding.com

ADfields · March 15, 2003, 01:16:47 AM

Well to just rust it spray it with mercuric acid and rinse with water, it will have a good even coat over night. You can get mercuric acid at a Home Depot, Ace or the like. It's used as a heavy duty cleaner for concrete so other things like paint will stick good, wicked stuff that you DON'T want to inhale fumes from but they don't stay long.

If it was me all I would do is hit the shiny spots with a plumbers torch till it dulls down good then let it cool, DON'T cool it with water. Then do a brown boot paste wax to your color and 3 or 4 coats of car carnuda wax. It will get a deep even lustered burnish to it like you see on most bronze works. It will last years and years just looking better and better all the time.

The trouble you are likely to have in the bluing or browning is you have a weld that is made up of another kind of steel so you may just make it show up more. Machine shops use the same type of stuff to find welds and cracks as a normal thing. Stove black would work but most of it needs heat to set and I don't think it will fit in your oven. If you do a gun brown you need to use the carnuda wax as a top coat to stop it how you want it and keep it, oil will need to be reapplied all the time and if you forget it will pit on you.

Fast rust browning.
Mix
2.5 fl. oz. nitric acid.
2 fl. oz. hydrochloric acid
1 oz. clean steel nails, yes nails like 3 penny finish
30 fl. oz. distilled water
Mix the acids and nails and when nails are dissolved (don't take long) add to the water. It gets used like Noble sead. Clean it free of ALL oil and don't touch without clean gloves on. Paint the stuff on as even as you can and let rust3 or 4 hours with this fast brown mix. Hit it with double ott steel wool with your gloves on and paint it up, keep doing it till it's like you want it then 3 or 4 coats of wax. If it don't work like you want you ain't heart nothing, so long as you don't rust it to long at a time.

I still have more recipes if you want. :

Andy

Jeff · March 15, 2003, 03:37:01 AM

I think I am leaning toewards the plummers torch and wax. What I really want is just the old patina that the saw once had in that weld and grind spot, its just so shiney compared to the rest of the saw.

RavioliKid · March 15, 2003, 07:57:05 AM

Jeff,

That is absolutely gorgeous! I'll bet he could have sold it for really big bucks!

Did you do the design?

ADfields · March 16, 2003, 01:15:51 AM

It will do you good I think. ;) Don't get it to hot, just scale the new work a bit so it gets the same texture at the rest.

I have just the place on my wall for that when your done. ;)
Andy