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Author Topic: engine replacement time?  (Read 7131 times)

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Offline woodbeard

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engine replacement time?
« on: June 19, 2007, 07:12:28 PM »
In the past month, I have spun a rod bearing in my truck and busted a timing belt in my honda civic. Well, I sez to myself, at least the sawmill still runs ok.
Why do I say things like that?
This morning, the 24hp Onan on my woodmizer bogged down and blew blue smoke.
I shut it down, waited a bit, and started it up again.
Ran fine, no more blue smoke, but when I got home, I did a compression test.
90psi in one cylinder, 45 in the other  >:(
I always had a feeling this engine was a bit weak, I guess this confirms it.
I know this engine is rebuildable, but Onan parts are just getting scarcer and pricier, so I'm really not interested in fixing it with such dwindling support.
So I guess it's time to bite the bullet and spring for a new engine.
WM offers a 25hp kohler package for about 2 grand, which would be the simplest option, but they say a week to 10 days, and I'd really like to keep going on the jobs I finally have lined up after months of nothing.
If it dosen't get radically worse, I can get thru the week with it. It really isn't any worse than last week.
It would be nice to change it out this weekend, but that may not be too realistic, especially if I have to custom fit something.
Oh well, at least I still have my health...
(sound of knuckles rapping on sawdust filled skull)


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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2007, 07:22:35 PM »

 Might just have a chunk of crap under a valve ???
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Offline WH_Conley

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2007, 07:34:11 PM »
Been there, done that. My onan started smoking and knocking, 1/2 gallon of oil a day. Checked with all the engine warehouses, could have saved some money, finally went with WM for a direct replacement, only thing that would not work was had to put an extra 1" spacer under the engine, what were included wasn't enough.

Mine went down in a busy time to, $800.00 and three weeks to rebuild :o. Almost half the replacement without the warranty.

I felt mine was weak too, the Kohler proved it, more power, little more than 1/2 the fuel, only thing I can think of is the old engine was weak and spending more time in the cut.

Might want to check on fuel injected to, if my info is right you get 3 or 4 more hp for the same engine weight. I beleive that on these mills you can feel every horse.

They told me the same thing on lead time, I think they are just trying to cover their butt because they have no control over the freight carrier, mine was cossiderablly less.

Ya could just jump on I65 and head north, get the Honda running you could probably save gas money on the freight. Get to check out the plant while you are at it too.
Bill

Offline woodbeard

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2007, 11:10:20 PM »
Quote
Might just have a chunk of scrappola under a valve

I thunk about that.
The plug in the weak cylinder was pretty crusty.
Don't wanna open anything up since I don't know where to find gaskets, and I need to keep sawing this week.
Maybe I'll try misting some water in a spray bottle over the carb?
I think I remember reading about that somewhere for carbon buildup? ???

Offline Greg Cook

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2007, 11:36:11 PM »
WB, have you tried Cummins/Onan on Spence Lane in Nashville?  Just past Briley Pkwy. on I-40, Exit onto Spence Lane, left at top of ramp, top of the hill on the right. Bet they can at least get ya some gaskets.

BTW, isn't that you pickin' in the picture on LuLu's menu?  Not a clear pic, but I thought it favored you.
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Offline woodbeard

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2007, 06:33:10 AM »
Hi, Greg. Yep, that's me. Not sure why anyone would put a photo of me on the menu- ain't much meat on my bones. Maybe they're trying to scare off customers. :D
Thanks for the tip on Cummins. I saw a van of theirs the other day, passing me on hwy70 with the mill, actually. So I figured they must have a location somewhere in the area.

WH- when I talked to WM, I got the impression they didn't have one on hand- I remember the phrase "to get one in" in the discussion of the time frame.  ???
Maybe I'll call back and clear that up.

At this point, I'm just gonna run it 'til it quits, or until I finish these sawing jobs, then decide what to to. For all I know, it could just keep going the rest of the summer. Like I said, it is not cutting dramatically slower than it has in the past. Not having run another similar mill, I never had a comparison, but I always felt like it should have had more power.

Offline WH_Conley

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2007, 09:19:36 AM »
I ran mine for a long time, didn't realize how slow it was.
Bill

Offline Kevin_H.

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2007, 10:14:24 PM »
Here is a thread on the engine replacement we did on the 97 woodmizer.

Engine replacement thread

It was really easy, all things considered...I think the 28hp FI is well worth the money if you can get one form WM.
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Offline pineywoods

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2007, 10:33:31 PM »
here's a couple of threads on using a liquid cooled kawasaki

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=22175.0

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=17276.msg297962#msg297962

I love mine and it was almost a bolt-on swap.  google tulsa engine warehouse.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Offline woodbowl

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2007, 10:44:03 PM »
Quote
At this point, I'm just gonna run it 'til it quits, or until I finish these sawing jobs, then decide what to to.

Hold on there George! Onans are notorious for loose valve seats. When my 24 Onan lost power it was because it had a cracked head and needed a few valve seats. Any shop that rebuilds heads can get your compression back up if that's all it is.

They were able to "ping" the cracked head back together. The next year the other side went out and they reworked it too. They had me up and running the next day and the cost was minor. This head work extended the engine life untill the motor wore out evenly, then I got another motor. I'm on my fourth motor now and I decided I would try a 25 Kohler this time. It runs like a scalded dog, I wish I had gotten a Kohler sooner.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Offline Handy Andy

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2007, 12:12:01 AM »
  If you are going to go with a new Kohler, Cook's saw has the 25 hp for 1497.79
Cookssaw.com  Says they have the heavy duty air cleaner, and aluma coated muffler.
My name's Jim, I like wood.

Offline woodbeard

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2007, 07:02:55 AM »
Quote
They were able to "ping" the cracked head back together. The next year the other side went out and they reworked it too. They had me up and running the next day and the cost was minor. This head work extended the engine life untill the motor wore out evenly, then I got another motor. I'm on my fourth motor now and I decided I would try a 25 Kohler this time. It runs like a scalded dog, I wish I had gotten a Kohler sooner.

Thanks, I think I will skip over the middle parts there, and go right to the scalded dog bit.  ;D

Where I have been sawing, there is also a Timber King mill with a 30hp Kohler that looks like it would work real well, I have been studying it quite a bit.
Got thru yesterday ok, but it is really going slow. Part of that is the logs I am sawing- all walnut, 8 and 10 foot, mostly crooked and smallish. But after 5 1/2 days, I have only racked up 4000bf. :(  My only consolation is that the 2 guys with the TK are not putting out much more. They are wearing out their lawn chairs, though.  :D
Today I will be cutting 14' oak 2x6, we will see how that goes.
I found a place in Nashville that seems to carry Kawasaki and Kohler engines. I think I will come home for lunch and give them a call.


Offline Greg Cook

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2007, 11:17:29 PM »
WB, I'd like to see that bigger TK in action. Kinda wore out cranking on this one, and would enjoy seeing one that would take better care of ME!  I know, if I hadn't been so cheap!....

Y'all sawin' close to home? How much longer you gonna be there?
Greg
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Offline woodbeard

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2007, 06:09:03 AM »
Greg, they are up at the log yard on hwy 70 on the left going up snows hill toward Smithville. They will be there today sawing, out toward the back of the yard.
The guys that run the yard are taking a couple weeks off after this week. They have been having me and the other guys saw up all their walnut so it doesn't sit out in the sun and crack all to pieces. We're getting down to the real scraggly little sticks, so I am taking the day off to tend to the mill, and a bunch of other stuff I need to do.
I think it is a 1600 they have, but with all the hydraulic options, and the bigger motor. Also has a separate motor for the hyd pump. Go and have a look if you get a chance, they get there around 6am and knock off around 3pm or so.


Offline woodbeard

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2007, 10:57:38 PM »
Got ahold of the cummins/onan place, and they at least has head gaskets in stock, so I went ahead and pulled the heads. Both exhaust valves are burnt, one real bad, 3 cracks all the way to the stem. That certainly explains the low compression.
Took me all morning to find a place that had the valves in stock, but they can't get them to me till wednesday. I think I'll still get them and put it all back together, since that seems to be the main problem, but I also managed to find a 24hp Honda locally. It was the only thing anyone had in stock anywhere nearby that I could find. They had the 25hp Kohler, too, but for 500 bucks more. I liked the 20 horse Honda I had on the Peterson well enough, so I went and got the 24 this afternoon. It was on sale too. :)  Only problem is they did not have the muffler in stock. >:( So, if I can't scare one up in the morning, I'll see if I can get something fabbed up at a muffler shop. Probably be cheaper that way, Honda wants $125 for theirs.
Overall, it looks like a pretty good replacement. I will have to block it up 3 3/8" to keep the pulley in the same location, but thats better than having to lower it, right? :D

Offline woodbowl

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2007, 09:13:23 AM »
woodbeard, how much is that 24 Honda? Is it new or used?

I forgot to tell you the other day that I've got a few new Onan valves, don't recall whether they are intake, exhause or both.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Offline Percy

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2007, 02:56:57 PM »
Just thought Id throw a vote for the Kohler if you decide on a new motor. Ive had a 25 HP kohler on my edger that I bought new in 2001. The thing has about 4000 plus hours on it,Ive modded the edger to take 3 inch cants, the governor stuck once and the thing was turnin major high rpm, didnt whine at all. It likes to ice up the carb when the dew point and temperature are close to eachother but if there is one piece of equipment that I havent looked after as well as I should, its that motor. Amazing piece IMHO......
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Offline woodbeard

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2007, 03:16:21 PM »
I have no doubts about the Kohler 25, but the Honda 24 was $500 less. For that money, I could almost get a real horse. :D Including Tennessee's outrageous sales tax, I paid a tad over 1300 for the honda. (new)  I coulda got the Kohler for a good price too, but not yesterday.
I lucked out, and found a slightly used muffler for $40 at a rental yard. They had taken it off a straw blower for some reason or another, and it is a perfect fit. 8)

Got almost all the mechanical stuff figured out, and now off to town to get nuts and bolts, etc.

Offline Norm

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2007, 04:57:50 PM »
Woodbeard see if you can get a tax refund on the engine. Most times items used in manufacturing are exempt. If in doubt call your state department of revenue, worst they can say is no. Even if you've already paid it you should be able to get a refund from your state.

Offline thurlow

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Re: engine replacement time?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2007, 05:09:58 PM »
Norm's right; agriculture and industrial equipment (dudden't this qualify?) is sales tax free in TN;  have to furnish a statement of usage to seller.  Don't know how to go about requesting a refund, but I'm sure it can be done.
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