sapwood in grading walnut and cherry, does it count as defect?

[Kelvin]

Howdy all,
I've been selling my lumber mostly by the piece, but when it comes to determining how much to scale a given walnut board how does the NHA say sapwood is treated?  My understanding was that both cherry and walnut are graded differently than other hardwoods allowing sap to be counted as NOT a defect.  Is this correct or does it only pertain to big kilns that steam their sapwood a brown color?  Is cherry similar?  Just a generel idea is good as i have a fellow who is interested in a few hundred bd ft of my big walnut and i wanted to know where to start the scaling amount.  Thanks
kelvin

[beenthere]

Kelvin
Sapwood is not a defect, unless specified in the contract, according to the NHLA rules.
Larry and Inspectorwoody will likely have more specific comments.    They deal in walnut, and Inspectorwoody grades it. Very likely too, that it depends on the market, which will adjust to whether sapwood is included in the measurement to get grade or scale, or not.

[IL Bull]

Most of my customers do not want sap wood.  :

[flip]

Everything I have seen in this area that is used by the factories is steamed to help blend the sap wood.  I don't believe they dock for this as I have seen lots of SW on post steamed wood.

[metalspinner]

As a customer, I would expect to pay for the whole board and would never ask you to dock the sap from the ticket.  I like to see the contrast of the sap on my walnut projects. Now I know that sometimes there are entire boards and board faces that are sap.  Those boards I would try to negotiate down a little.  If I wanted a blond board, I would buy maple, not walnut sap.

[beenthere]

We pay for what we get....

If the sap is scaled off the board foot tally, then the price for heartwood walnut (or cherry) will be higher, I'd expect.

If selling, know what the buyer wants.

If buying, let the seller know what you want.

But to answer the initial question in the heading, sapwood is not a defect under standard NHLA rules.

[Kelvin]

thanks guys!
KP

[Kcwoodbutcher]

NHLA doesn't distinguish heartwood from sapwood in cherry but unsteamed FAS walnut has a special rule--"Pieces 5", 6" and 7" wide admit sapwood on either or both faces which does not exceed in the aggregate one-sixth the width of the piece. 8" and wider admit sapwood on either or both faces which does not exceed in the aggregate one-fourth the width of the piece.  Any part of the sapwood allowed may be included in the cuttings."- They also have special rules regarding wane and end checks.