Circle mill guide track

[jason.weir]

My mill has square steel bar for the guide track on the saw side of the carriage and a flat steel bar on the far side of the carriage.  I read in C.H. Wendel's "The Circular Sawmill", that the guide track was usually put on the far side of the carriage to keep sawdust from building up and changing the level and plumb of the carriage. 

As I have to rebuild the carriage and mill track I can place the guide track anywhere I want.  What is everyone's experience on this?  I am actually thinking of swapping out the square bar for angle iron and changing the wheels to v-casters like the band mills.  Any ideas??

-Jason

[Fla._Deadheader]

Why change it ???  Just put track wipers on both sides of all the square bar wheels. I even added pieces of hacksaw blade, as scrapers IN the wheel grooves. Most be brackets for track wipers on the carriage ???

  Most I EVER had was a bumpy, bump-bump sound until the hacksaw blade pieces were added.

  I would rather see the guide wheels, to know if something was happening, like, knock the carriage off the track with a log or cant, then running into the saw.

  It CAN happen, same as the feed cable overlapping itself and causing a runaway carriage. THAT happens, also.  : : ;D

[york]

I would not change it either...On my circle mill,i bolted on steak pockets,got from central tractor-now tractor supply-dropped in some oak...did not think about the hacksaw blades,but still worked good-put one on both ends of car......

[jason.weir]

I'm not big on changing stuff either, but the fact is I have to fix or replace what I have.

There is too much play between the guide wheels and the guide track. I would guess I'm approaching 1/4" of side to side slop.

I probably can true the wheels on the lathe and buy an oversize track.  Or I can replace wheels with V-Groove Casters and replace the track with angle iron.  Either way I have to do something.

I was more asking which side of the carriage (near or far) people have seen the guide track.  I hear you on the wipers, and thanks for the hacksaw blade idea....

-J

[Fla._Deadheader]

Understand the side slop.  ;D ;D :D :D :D

  I'm thinking the inverted angle will allow the wheels to "climb" and get out of whack. That's how we built the WM bandmill type track. Weight is hung differently.

  Is the guide piece mounted on wood or steel. ???  Easiest would be change the guide piece, if mounted on wood. On steel, weld another piece to one side of the guide piece, to take up the slack, maybe ???

[york]

OK Jason,
What kind of mill is this??Pic. or two would help...

[jason.weir]

Deadheader - the guide track is 1" x 1" square stock that sits on 1/8" x 1 1/2" flat bar stock that is all screwed to wood beams.

York - not sure of the make, I can't find any manufacture markings.  I would guess it was probably built from parts by a local yankee farmer.  That farmer (long dead) was known to have built, used and sold a couple of mills before this one.  He sold it to the guy I got it from, the mill has been in the same 1 mile radius are for at least the last 25 years and never setup and running.

Here is a picture of the carriage.  Better pictures are under the snow.







My thought for the v-groove casters was that as they wear no slop is created. I had not thought of the wheels "climbing".  See the following diagram.



-Jason

[Ron Wenrich]

All of the automatics have their guide tracks to the back side of the mill.  There are a couple of reasons for that.

One is that you won't have as much falling onto the guide track.  If you are sawing unbarked logs, and a piece of bark falls onto the guide track, you can have the carriage move off the track.  I was in a mill one time that had a saw that had 1 tooth on it.  The rest were sawn off.  It came when a piece fell onto the guide track, and put the headblock in line with the saw.  Yikes.   

I have track cleaners, and still get things that make my carriage go bump.  Mine are made of metal and slip around the wheels.  They keep the wheels clean, and rub against the flat track.  Our guide rail is a hex shaped.  To keep that track clean (sawdust from the vertical edger), we put a 4x4 piece of tube steel.  Inside that, I put several pieces of oak.   That way, if one piece wears out, another can easily be put in its place, and the wood will fit on top and on both sides of the track. 

Another factor is if you were going to use some sort of hydraulic log turner.  You can lift the carriage off of the track.  You have a lot more resistance if the guidetrack is on the back side.

Slop can come from both the wheels and the bearings.

[Jeff]

A heavier and more durable guide track can be made from hex stock.

[J_T]

My old mill has someside slop : But the cables must be what keeps it pulling right  ??? I found those wheels fit half inch iron pipe rather well .Getting ready to rework a frick carrage and thinking of autamating some of it .Going to put a locker at stop positon so I can use a large hyd. chain turner I have on hand an a live deck with a flipper .

[Sawyerfortyish]

My guess on your mills maker would be an old Lane. One of the other local mills around me has a Lane carrige that looks sort of like yours. I'm judging this from memory it's been a while since I last seen it. But since your in NH and Lane was made inVT there's a good chance thats what it is. But then again you'll find a mill once in a while that came from the other end of the planet and you wonder how it got there.

[jason.weir]

Ron - Thanks for the info - the guide track will go on the far side of the carriage with plenty of track cleaners.

Jeff - What kind of wheels ride on the hex stock and what makes them more durable than angle or square stock?  Just plain surface area?

J_T - Iron pipe never thought of that - another option thanks...

Sawyerfortyish - I've seen 4 different Lane mills in the immediate area - Not saying this one isn't a Lane but it looks nothing like the others.  It does have have a beam full length of the carriage that the headblocks are mounted to, just like the Lane but the husk is completely different as is the feed type.  Mine has the Heacock feed where the Lanes have friction disc feed.  I'm pretty sure its a Bitsa mill...  Bitsa this and bitsa that..  Just like the rest of the stuff around here..

I like all the circle mill talk that has been going on lately.  All thanks to Frank and his new Chase mill.  Sometimes I get lonely when all the talk is about the new fandangled band mills.

-Jason

[jason.weir]

It CAN happen, same as the feed cable overlapping itself and causing a runaway carriage. THAT happens, also.

That sounds scary I can't seem to grasp it can someone explain.. Deadheader??

Thanks,
Jason

[Fla._Deadheader]

  On the 2 mills I had, there was a drum on a shaft, that was gear driven from the husk. It went under the carriage and across to the other track.

  There is a cable wrapped around it about 5 wraps.  The cable runs to a pulley on each end of the track. The cable goes around the pulley and gets fastened to the ends of the carriage. That's what runs the carriage back and forth. If the cable is not adjusted properly (too much slack) it MIGHT jump over one wrap and not wind-unwind properly.

  That has so much force, it can over power the feed system no matter which way you TRY to save the mill, and it could run off either end of the track, at a good speed.

  In Arkansas, I've seen 3 different setups with end walls blown out of the sheds.  I never had that problem, because I was told about it, and paid attention to detail.  :

[Don_Papenburg]

Mine (Frick) has the guide track on the back  Flat track next to the saw.  Has wipers at each wheel.

[jason.weir]

My mill is a cable mill which I'm familiar with.  I understand what you mean by the cable jumping over another wrap and not unwraping correctly what I cannot seem to grasp is how that makes the carriage run-away.  With my feed setup (Heacock) if I let go of the control lever it moves to center and there is no power being applied to the drum and the carriage will stop, if there is no power to the drum what causes the run-away?  I'm still not understanding something..

Thanks,
-Jason

[JSNH]

That explains the large springs on either end of my mill. Cable jump overfeed more of a bump than a bang. I thought it was the person who built it was just jumpy.
My guide is on the far side and square. The side toward the blade is flat and I run a single blade in front of the leading wheel to wipe the saw dust off. It works better than you would expect. Sometimes something will fall just right and the carrage will bump up. I would not want that with the guide rail. I have seen inverted angle iron. I would not weld it to flat stock too much distortion. I  would weld nuts on to small flat stock and run bolts to hold the the angle pinched between the bolts and use a  nut to lock it inplace. put them every 10" or 12" so you will have lots of mirco adjustment, nail or bolt to your wood frame. Once you get it right your good to go. Who knows on wood you may need to tweek it and your going to  move it once per your plan.

[Jeff]

Here is a diagram of the carriage truck assembly from the mill I used to run.

The hex track is more durable and stable simply because of the mass. Its solid and will take the banging that can happen around the mill.  The inverted angle iron type track is susceptible to crush. Its probably just fine for lighter mills, but the hex makes a ready made track. Just lay it out, make danGed sure its aligned perfectly and stays that way as you tack it down.

[bandmiller2]

Jason, my old mill had inverted "V" 11/4 x1/4 angle ,tabs welded 16'' or so bolted down it was also on the saw side,never a problem.Snow sticks on a flat roof, slides right off a steep pitch.My track cleaners were two oak blocks cut to match V on the bottom a pointed V to fit into the wheel one on each side of wheel held togather with a bar on each side endplay so they would't bind. Drilled holes in the top of the blocks filled with oil ,leather piece to keep sawdust out.Lathe ways use Vee track.Many ways to skin the mill cat most work well if built right and maintained.Frank C.