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Author Topic: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.  (Read 7711 times)

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Offline alsayyed

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Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« on: January 22, 2008, 01:11:43 PM »

Hello fellows I hope everybody are fine and in good health. Very shortly I am going to quit using chainsaw for wood milling , because I am very tired of this operation, too much effort and hard work involved in this method. I am thinking to buy small portable saw mill, I have looked at up wood mizer the LT 15 model but still need more information. I have look at timber king, but still cannot make my mind, the reason I do not want expensive one because my budget is limited, I have looked at wood mizer site but do not see any prices and other accessories price is published. So I am asking your advice in directing me  to good ones that do not have to pay more money, the one I am interested in is that you hook the mill by the car and go from one place to other.
I appreciate your guidance in choosing a saw mill.


Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2008, 01:24:10 PM »

 I remember your post about smoking the chain and log.

  If your logs are really hard, a Bandmill won't work well. You need a Carbide tipped blade, Swingmill type. A used one should be in your price range, and, after seeing your metal working skills, making it trailerable will not be all that difficult.

  Maybe you could just buy a carriage and make your own bed-track. Steel would work well, and Aluminum is for carrying the mill to remote setups.

  Just my little ideas  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Tom

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2008, 01:29:32 PM »
Alsayyed,
You will find that milling with a bandsaw is much different than the chainsaw. The bandsaw will require that you use Finesse' (a light hand) over strength.  While I'll leave it to the other members to help decide on the tool, I'll still interject this information.  Remain as "Standard" as you can.  Make it easy to get parts and blades.   The standard size blade has been defined over the years to be 13'2".  You can buy blades of different sizes but staying with the standard will make it easier.  

I don't know what your access is to a blade shop, but, you might want to consider a setter and sharpener package along with the mill.  It's another learning experience but will keep you in sharp blades if you learn.

The size of mill you are looking at doesn't offere much in the way of log handling, so the most important thing to consider is going to be customer service and the horse power offered.  You can't have too many horses,

Norwood, Timberking and Wood Mizer are all good manufacturers.  Your access to them may be a problem. You are not in an area that attracts sawmill builders.  :D
extinct

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2008, 05:46:20 PM »
I think I'll have to agree with Harold.  I was reading some of the posts on a forum from Australia, and they were pretty much in agreement that swingers were better than bandmills in the really hard wood.  They also laughed at what us in North America call "hard" wood.

Maybe we can get a few from down under to comment.
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2008, 05:57:12 PM »

 Jim King also uses a round blade and is seeking a swingmill. He HAS a bandmill for "softer" wood.  I am assuming Alsayyed has hard wood, because of the location ???
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-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline ErikC

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2008, 06:14:50 PM »
    When I bought my peterson it was a 13hp, 6" with tracks long enough to cut 14'. Totally entry level. But I can't imagine that a similarly sized and priced bandsaw could touch it for what it cut, and it was pretty easy too! I would definitely go peterson or lucas, even the smaller models will do wonders compared to a chainsaw mill, and usually outcut a manual band mill.

Erik
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Online Ianab

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2008, 02:14:38 AM »
If you can manage a swingmill it's the best option for the logs you have there. My mill is 8" cut with only 8hp, but it will saw its way though just about anything if you are patient. Really HARD wood like those desert eucalypts and acacia might be slower cutting, but the mills will gnaw through them without any serious problem.

It also solves your transport needs as the whole mill packs up and fits on a pickup or small trailer. The trailer you showed in a thread a while back would transport the mill AND a stack of sawn boards ;)

Cheers

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline amberwood

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2008, 03:42:38 AM »
Alsayyed/Ron

It is an age old question..it seems that for my work I need the bandsaw (LT40) to produce the wider material and the handle the odd logs/cants that turn up. If I was using a swinger I would have to pass up on half of my work. I am regularly cutting timber that exceeds 1000kg/m3 denisty and it just means having to "finesse" the cutting rather just leaping in at full speed. Sharp well set blades make a huge difference as does the hook angle. I am now using 4deg. Obviously using a circular carbide blade would be easier but then we all need two sawmills dont we? Maybe carbide bands are the go?

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Offline alsayyed

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2008, 10:07:05 PM »
Hello there after reading all the post I have found out that most recommend that I should go for swing mill, which is supplied by Peterson. I looked at Peterson web site and found out there three to four types of saw mill I have looked some videos in the site and it looks ok, but still my thinking about band mill so I can flip the log and raise the log.
So like I said I appreciate your help and will study the swing mill good and what type of swing mill that suite me.
Thank you fellows.


Offline Nate Surveyor

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2008, 10:14:40 PM »
Alsayyed,

"the reason I do not want expensive one because my budget is limited," I can relate!

"I am going to quit using chainsaw for wood milling , because I am very tired of this operation, too much effort and hard work involved in this method." I can relate!

I started with an Alaskan Mill, then a Logosol, and now a Peterson.

I pray I will never be without a sawmill, 'til I die, and that my kids will love it too!

Nate
I know less than I used to.

Offline alsayyed

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2008, 06:26:31 AM »
Alsayyed,

 I started with an Alaskan Mill, then a Logosol,
 

Nate
Hello Nat I have read the post, but while I was going through the Peterson site I have found out there are at least four to five models, so could not make my mind which will suit me. I saw the engine power differences I mean different type of hp power.
So what power you will recommend for swing blade saw mill.




Offline Nate Surveyor

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2008, 08:49:26 AM »
It really comes down to what kind of wood you have to cut.

And where you live. Your profile does not tell me where you are from. (It may tell you, but I don't have the riddle figured out! :) )

And what are you going to do with the wood.

There is some good logic for buying a 6" mill, to get the narrower kerf, and the 6" one double cuts slightly easier than an 8" one. (In my opinion) Carl Peterson's first mills were smaller.

And how do you transport it?

IF you are going to mill STATIONARY, bringing logs to the mill, there is some to be said about electric. Less noise, no motor to maintain, and all.

Why don't you profile yourself, your logs, your location, and what the final wood products will be used for, and then let others make suggestions on what will best meet your needs.

I have gotten some of the BEST advice and BEST ideas from this forum!

Nate
I know less than I used to.

Offline kderby

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2008, 09:22:59 AM »
Alsayyed, sounds like you are on a good path.  When I read your question I thought swing mill also.  I have a band mill and each blade has hundreds of teeth.  The swing mill I have seen has five teeth?  Much simpler to sharpen, repair or replace the carbide teeth. 

You will not miss your chainsaw mill.

Good Luck!

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2008, 01:00:17 PM »
Nate:

Look at Alsayyed's profile a little closer.  He is from Qatar.  That is one of those Persian Gulf countries.  Also, go through his messages, and you'll get a really good idea what some of his problems are.  His pictures will also tell you what his woodlot looks like.

Alsayyed cuts wood that would make an old, dry hickory log look like cottonwood.  He is cutting some really dense stuff.  He's smoking a sharp chain saw on some of these logs.

I'm no authority on swing mills.  I've only seen a few of them in operation.  But, from what I've heard from here and other sites, the swing mill will work better on those really dense woods than many other types of mills. 

As far as wanting to flip the log, I don't think that is as necessary on one of these mills.  Maybe one of the swing millers could describe how you saw a log. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2008, 01:35:09 PM »

 From what I can gather, Alsayyed wants a portable, trailerable mill. I see no reason why he could not buy just a carriage /blades and a sharpener. He would build a box tube trailer and use an angle as the track. That's exactly how the Swingers are set up, only use Aluminum and in sections.  Therer would need to be room to swing the blade. It dips lower than the cutting surface. Many people don't realize this, and swing the blade, andknock all the tips off their blades ???

  I had thought about the same set up, before I bought the Peterson and moved down here.  Alsayyed needs to tell us what the largest log he has ever seen in Qatar, and then build accordingly. I can't imagine him not buying just the carriage and accessories ??? Lucas or Peterson, would make little difference.

  If the logs are not big, he might could use the 6" cut machine, and the 13HP or so, engine. Mine has a 20HP Honda, and usually, it's fine. BIG HARD logs, I wish I had a 40 HP engine.

  He could make the wheels so the mill settles closer to the ground, when he sets up, and you manually push the carriage, anyway, so, he has what he wants, and carbide teeth to cut that hard stuff. Bunks according to the size of log he can find, and made of wood. 

  This ain't Rocket Science ???
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   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

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Offline DanG

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2008, 01:39:14 PM »
Alsayyed, I too recommend a swingblade mill for your situation.  As others have mentioned, blade maintenance on a bandmill would be a problem for you, but would not on a swingblade.  Specifically, the Peterson WPF would be my first choice, but the Peterson ATS model might be better for you because it is less expensive.  Either of them will do the same job for you, but the WPF is a bit easier to use.  These mills are more expensive to buy than a manual bandmill, but less expensive than an automated bandmill.
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Offline Nate Surveyor

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2008, 03:55:20 PM »
I did look at all his pics. (before I posted) And have thought about it. I had not heard of QATAR, and thought it was a code for something (me just dumb...)

But, I'd personally go at this one of 2 ways.

MOST portable is the 13 HP 6" ATS. This would be my pick if I had to carry the mill to the trees.

Less portable is the WPF. If I went WPF, (that's what I have) then I'd probably go for some big motor. I think you can get it up to 40 hp.

These are the 2 extremes of the Peterson lineup.

I saw your pickup... poor thing! A good trailer, with some kind of winch loader would be nice... And, by looking at your shop, you are handy with stuff.
And you have some blue sky over your head. (I like blue sky..)

I just got another DIGITAL camera, that does movies. I plan to mill a few logs with my Peterson, and place them on youtube.com
There are not really enough videos of swingmills out there yet, to really get a feel for them.

Maybe I can help simply by posting some.

Nate

I know less than I used to.

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2008, 04:44:28 PM »
Quote
So what power you will recommend for swing blade saw mill.

Get as much power as you can afford  :)

The engine power doesn't affect what you can cut, the 13hp 8" mills will still cut 8" deep in any wood, but they wont do it quickly. If you are upgrading from a chansaw mill, even a low powered swingblade is going to be 10 times faster. Of course a high powered swingblade will be 20 times faster  ;D I would go with the 8"cut, the extra cost in not great, and I like the wider boards.

As the guys have said, with a swingmill you generally dont move the log, it just gets sawn from top to bottom in layers. You can still flat saw or quartersaw to get the best boards from the log, but you do this by alternating between horizontal and vertical boards as needed. This page on the Peterson site has some sample cutting patterns, but you aren't restricted to that. You can flat saw part of a log, and quatersaw in another part if you want. Heck you can even saw some boards off, then switch to your chainsaw for a couple of big live edge slabs, then saw the rest of the log into boards. Or cut 1/2 a log, roll it over and cut from the other side and get a big table top slab. Lots of options in the way you cut.
http://www.petersonsawmills.com/mill_ops_patterns.htm

Cheers

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline Nate Surveyor

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2008, 05:30:28 PM »
Ian, do you have a way to VIDEO your chain saw / Peterson mill?

And, place it on YOUTUBE?

Is yours a "Jack the giant killer" with a WPF?

Just hearing about these HARD trees fascinates me.

I know for myself, it is hard to have TOO MUCH power!

Nate
I know less than I used to.

Offline ErikC

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Re: Need advice in picking reasonable saw mill.
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2008, 07:51:33 PM »
 As far as power goes, obviously the more thet better. But consider this--when I bought the peterson I have it was 6", with 13 hp honda. I upgraded to 8" dreading how slow it would probably cut. To my surprise it cut 8" as well as 6", if not a little better!  I don't know just why this is, but it is. The bigger cut makes the mill a lot more versatile than you'd think, and can really up production also. I put a bigger 20 hp engine on recently, and it does speed things up a lot. But if you can't do both, I'd  upgrade to 8" when you buy the mill, it's a lot cheaper then, and up the motor when you can afford it later. Either way, you'll love it!

Erik
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws


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