Any composters here?

[maestro]

Hey gang, I'm tossing around the idea of composting.  My "real" job is a retail florist but I'm finishing up a degree in Conservation and on my way to becoming a Master Naturalist.  During my schooling though I'm way more about the soil and how it works in relation to growing everything, and that the optimum organic matter suggested in the soil is 10%.  Take in to consideration that as a florist, I'm trashing several pounds of organic matter per day in terms of stems, leaves, broken flower heads and lost product due to age.  My goal would be to create a good compost and use that on the property and in planter beds that I'm planning to make over the winter.  Try and do some of my own growing of heartier plants/trees and open up a lawn center out back. 

I get the concept of composting but have never done it before with any success.  The good thing is now that I'm a grown up (and have been one for several years), my stick-to-it-ness has increased dramatically! 

Guess I'm looking for thoughts or tips.  Thanks!

[Tom]

Composting is fairly easy.  Wet the material, inject some active manure, and turn the pile about once a week after it begins to work. 

The pile is a lot like Sour Dough.  Once it starts working, it works on any new material you add.

Generally, the two things that it requires as a potting material after composting is Lime and Nitrogen.  Nitrogen is locked up while it is rotting but is released once the compost is complete.

There is a lot of heat generated and you must turn the pile to cool it so that the heat doesn't kill the bacteria that are rotting the material.  Even a few earthworms added to the mix helps.

I guess you could make it as complicated as you want.  :D

[Warbird]

Yeah...  I'm slowly composting.  Wasting away, as it were.  ;D

[thecfarm]

I do it,but really not correct.Is there really a wrong way?Something is better than nothing.I probaly have about 3 yards that I turn with my tractor when I feel like it.I know the "correct" way,but just do it any old way to make me happy.Old hay,manure,grass clippings,leaves,coffee grounds anything else I can get my hands on that will rot.

[Left Coast Chris]

The part most people give up on is turning the pile.......especially if it gets too big.  It can be alot of work.   I just got lazzy and piled the horse manure into a cone shape and keep adding to the top.  After a year of doing that, simply scrape off the top and what is burryed towards the bottom is black and composted.    Wa-La   

[Gary_C]

I would say you have a good idea because the price of fertilizer has just skyrocketed lately. There are many large farmers getting into the livestock business just for the manure and manure of all kinds is being sold for very high prices because it is far better than the commercial stuff.

The problem the composters are having is buying loads of wood chips for their compost piles.

[Onthesauk]

In my younger days I once ran a three bin compost system for a couple of years, probably turned out 5+ tons of compost a year.  I had access to pretty much unlimited horse manure and grass clippings.  Started everything in the first bin, alternating layers and wet it down between layers.  A week later it would have cooked down to half the volume and I would turn it into the second bin.  A week later that would get turned into the third bin and from there sifted and used as mulch in the garden.  Anything that didn't sift through got thrown back into the first bin.   All the weeds from the garden went into the first bin plus had a grinder for leaves and branches.  Very labor intensive but the best fertilizer I've ever used. 

[stonebroke]

I hear that the compost tumblers are the way to go. Kind of pricey though.

Stonebroke

[MrMoo]

I do composting but like some have said I too forget to turn it. I still get this black stuff that I put on the garden and it makes it grow well.

I actually have 2 piles I take 2 years to "make" the compost rotating the pile I use each fall. I first fill it with leaves and then use scraps from the kitchen (no meats) for the rest of the year.

Makes decent stuff

[Radar67]

There is a set of instructions on making a compost tumbler over on instructables.com. All you need is a 55 gallon drum, some pipe, hinges, barrel bolts, and some lumber.

[Sprucegum]

Everything biodegradable will turn into compost naturally if left in a pile long enough.
Mans goal is to make it happen on his time table, preferably 3 weeks rather than 3 years.
I'm a 3-year man myself   ;)  I fill a bin at the top and steal black stuff from the bottom.

[Radar67]

You can also use a worm bin. I have found chickens do a real good job of composting too.

[srt]

I have about 300 yd3 of leaves and manure composting now.  This is my first big batch, and I hope to at least double this for next year.  I've purchased a used commercial compost turner that makes wetting and turning the compost the easiest part of the job.  I'm on the way to turning a tired old chemical row cropped farm into an organic beef and veggie farm.  Might not go "certified" organic, because I'm just not sure it's worth all of (what I consider to be) B.S. you have to go through for certification, but that's another story.  I'm drifting off topic here.......

From all I've read, Tom has hit the big points, and he's sure right about making it as complicated as you want.  I've read hundreds of pages on the subject, but it doesn't need to be that complicated unless you're trying to recover a very high percentage of the nutrients in a very short period of time.

If you're looking to prevent the off-gassing of the nitrogen, you need to watch the carbon to nitrogen ratio, keep it wet and turned to keep oxygen in there. 

Here's a link to some good reading about compost:

www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0302hsted/030202/03020201.html

Ok, it didn't link, so cut and paste it.  His writing style suits my reading style.

One thing I'm coming to realize after studying this composting thing for about a year is that soil mineral balancing is very important to crop health.  I've talked with guys who have achieved the 10 percent organic matter, and still had problems until they balanced.  Yes, O.M. is great, but without the other stuff in balance, it's only half the ballgame.  If you're interested, I could give you some more links.

[maestro]

Hey, thanks for all the great responses...I've got a test batch cooking right now.  Shooting for the 3 week mark since this is low volume stuff (for now) and since it's only a test. 

SRT, great info and 10% is about the max organic matter in soil that will do any good.  Some of my recent classes were with the MU Extension soil expert and we learned all about balanced soils and organic content.  The Master Gardeners at "the" botanical gardens here in St. Louis say that anything over 10% organic really doesn't do much at all.  I'm taking a series of soil sub samples to get a good overview of my lawn to start balancing out the NPK for the spring!  Should have one of the best lawns with just a little effort and good science! 

My ultimate goal is to start collecting seeds from native plants and get an indoor bedding area set up.  Don't have the space for a green house but do have the room for some bedding tables and grow lights.  Temp is fairly easy to control during the winter and we can be set come spring for planting! 

[srt]

Maestro,

Scott here from the trumpet/fhorn section.......

NKP are the three biggies that the fert companies push.  There is much, much more to it from what I'm learning.  Start with base saturation percentages of the cations, and their ratios.  Now, that's a mouthfull of tripple tounging, but basically, it has to do with all the other stuff being in balance.  Kinda like ratio of picillos to tubas. 


I'll drop back in with another link in a bit.

Right now I'm taking a break from a doing a brake job and working on retirement paperwork for my better half.  The brake job is the easiest!!  I need to get back to those now that I got cut off while on hold.

srt

[Sunfield Hardwood]

My garden was about  as hard as a driveway and just about as fertile. I started taking sawdust from the bottom of the pile and horse manure from the bottom of the pile and mixing it, I take a scoop of each with the skid steer untill I have a big pile in the driveway then mix it with the loader also, then put about a 4 inch layer on the garden every spring. after 10 years my garden is nice and loamy and raises great veggies 8), I also add some lime and a little nitrogen fertilizer to compensate for the sawdust, which uses nitrogen while breaking down the sawdust. I guess thats just kind of a lazey way to compst

[srt]

Maestro,

This soil fertility is a pretty deep subject.  Although related to what we're trying to do by composting, balancing soil fertility can be done with or without increasing the soil organic matter.

While reading the info in the link I'm going to post, I kept flashing back to my training years ago.  The Law of Conservation of Matter.  Basically, it states that "matter can't be created or destroyed, only altered in form".  It follows that if your dirt doesn't have enough calcium, your plants will not  either. 

Hope this gives you some good reading.

It sounds like you have some formal education in the field of plants.  My informal (internet) education may leave me some gaps and misunderstandings.  If you think this stuff is out-to lunch, or missing something of value, shout it out to me. 

I've filled the cup, but haven't started to drink the cool aid yet!

Here's the link:

http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010141.soil.fertility.animal.health/010146.albrecht.animal.health.pdf


srt