$7958 for a firewood processor !

[genesis5521]

OK Scott. Then I'm back to buying a welder. The one I have my heart set on is the Hobart Stickmate® LX 235 AC / 160 DC for $445.00 at Fleet Farm. http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/stick/stickmate-lx235ac-160dc/ I've found numerous "how-to" welding videos on the internet, but I thought this 26 minute one was rather good in that the first half talks about safety and the second half gives some useful things to get me going and to practice on. http://oldwww.ez-net.com/~genesis/welding.wmv I've watched this video at least 10 times. Then I found an excellent 350 page welding book which includes tests on each chapter. I downloaded the entire book from http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson1_1.htm Took me quite awhile, but it was well worth it. I just finished reading chapter 1. After burning through 20 pounds of rods as "practice", my first project will be a log lifter. Free plans are available at http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1982-09-01/Mothers-Log-Lifter.aspx My next project will be a simple log arch like this one: https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,40590.0.html Then I'll be ready to tackle the firewood processor at http://millerswoodcutting.com/firewoodproc.html I only work two days a week so I've got lots of time on my hands. This website has a log splitter kit for $1498 (scroll toward the bottom of the page) consisting of 7 parts. http://www.splitez.com/log_splitter_parts.html Is this a good place to start? Are these decent quality parts? If I go this building route, I figure it'll take me the better part of a summer to build a processor. Heck, it'll take me three weeks to just get two pieces of steel to stick together. And that weld will probably break the first time I wack it good and hard. But that doesn't deter me. It's all part of the learning process. I also have two retired welding instructors, and my neighbor who's the head of the maintenance department at his plant, who are more than willing to give me a few pointers and kinda help me along. I don't expect to become an "expert" welder. But I do expect to become "reasonably proficient."

[moonhill]

A wire fed MIG is the way to go IMO.  Stick welding has so many variables.  I am using a welder/generator (Miller) with a spool gun. https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/Profax01.pdf.  It uses a 2 pound spool of wire and can be switched to aluminum with the change of a gas cylinder.  I looked at the suit case type and found the price to out of reason.  With a bottle of gas I have $900 in it.  It will weld anything I need it to and more, easily and anywhere I need to go. 

Tim

[motohed]

OK Scott. Then I'm back to buying a welder. The one I have my heart set on is the Hobart Stickmate® LX 235 AC / 160 DC for $445.00 at Fleet Farm. http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/stick/stickmate-lx235ac-160dc/ I've found numerous "how-to" welding videos on the internet, but I thought this 26 minute one was rather good in that the first half talks about safety and the second half gives some useful things to get me going and to practice on. http://oldwww.ez-net.com/~genesis/welding.wmv I've watched this video at least 10 times. Then I found an excellent 350 page welding book which includes tests on each chapter. I downloaded the entire book from http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson1_1.htm Took me quite awhile, but it was well worth it. I just finished reading chapter 1. After burning through 20 pounds of rods as "practice", my first project will be a log lifter. Free plans are available at http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1982-09-01/Mothers-Log-Lifter.aspx My next project will be a simple log arch like this one: https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,40590.0.html Then I'll be ready to tackle the firewood processor at http://millerswoodcutting.com/firewoodproc.html I only work two days a week so I've got lots of time on my hands. This website has a log splitter kit for $1498 (scroll toward the bottom of the page) consisting of 7 parts. http://www.splitez.com/log_splitter_parts.html Is this a good place to start? Are these decent quality parts? If I go this building route, I figure it'll take me the better part of a summer to build a processor. Heck, it'll take me three weeks to just get two pieces of steel to stick together. And that weld will probably break the first time I wack it good and hard. But that doesn't deter me. It's all part of the learning process. I also have two retired welding instructors, and my neighbor who's the head of the maintenance department at his plant, who are more than willing to give me a few pointers and kinda help me along. I don't expect to become an "expert" welder. But I do expect to become "reasonably proficient."

Hi Don
Like moonhill said , I would also look at a wire feed machine . Both Hobart and Miller make very good machines , that will weld half inch or better . I would not buy the smallest unit , as you will be building all kinds of stuff  , once you get started . Stick machines are almost obsoleate , except for the heaviest of welding and gouging . I would expect some people to disagree , but I have been a certified welder for a long time , I don't goug anymore as I have a plasma cutter that will cut up to an inch and a half and sever two inch material . Clean up is very easy with a wire feed machine or ( MIG machine) is the correct terminology . The down side to a mig machine the metal needs to be clean , rust and grease free . That is easyer than chipping slag from a weld . I would not recomend a non gas machine , you can buy them and the wire , but it is the same as stick welding at that point . I would also look at a good chopsaw and welding shield , it is as valuable as the welder . You will also have to be careful of your welding and tacking process , as you will find it is very easy to have your measurements pulled out of spec , while welding . I , as others here will help you as best as we can . Do yourself a favor and don't skimp on the welder , It will be one of the most valued purchases you make . You may not use it every day , but when you do , you  will be happy that you did . You will also want to check what size breaker ,you need to operate the welder .  If you what to talk about it , just PM me and I will give you my number .

         Best Regards Scott

[moonhill]

I would 2nd the flux wire or what ever it is.  Use the gas, place a shield if it is outside and windy, which rarely happens.  You can push your luck with dirty steal, rust and paint etc. but a nice clean material welds well no matter what your are using. 

The reason I went with the spool gun was the 220 version of the smaller welders would have been plugged into the welder/generator and run off the ac outlet, it just didn't make sense.  I happened to talk to another welding outfit and after a few questions they hooked me right up with this system, it is beautiful and in the same cost range I would have paid for the little box welder.   

I used my generator for 4 hours to day sanding, routing, and drilling wood then opened my hall doors and put some real lock tight on the bolts which fell out of my cutting edge on my plow, prep for the next snow.  A few days ago we fabricated a bicycle into a scooter with an electric motor, it still needs some tweaking.

Tim

[motohed]

I would 2nd the flux wire or what ever it is.  Use the gas, place a shield if it is outside and windy, which rarely happens.  You can push your luck with dirty steal, rust and paint etc. but a nice clean material welds well no matter what your are using. 

The reason I went with the spool gun was the 220 version of the smaller welders would have been plugged into the welder/generator and run off the ac outlet, it just didn't make sense.  I happened to talk to another welding outfit and after a few questions they hooked me right up with this system, it is beautiful and in the same cost range I would have paid for the little box welder.   

I used my generator for 4 hours to day sanding, routing, and drilling wood then opened my hall doors and put some real lock tight on the bolts which fell out of my cutting edge on my plow, prep for the next snow.  A few days ago we fabricated a bicycle into a scooter with an electric motor, it still needs some tweaking.

Tim

Hi Tim
I agree a spool gun in your case may be a good option . I also have one , but many times when I am using it  , it will not fit into the desired place that a regular mig torch will . This can be a pain when you are fabricating a piece of equipment like a processor , Etc . I think the limitations of the spool gun ,  merit the extra expense , I am  not sure how thick of a metal you can have really good weld penitration on with a spool gun . It has been my experience when welding stainless or aluminum , a quarter inch was on the outside of the buble with a mig gun . You may have come appon a better gun , I am not sure . In any case with the price of your Miller generator / welder combination , The price of a really good mig machine will be cheaper , IMO . I would stick with either Miller or hobart , I would also shop a local welding house close by . Mig welders have consumable items , and it will be much easier to find these items locally , and you will also need the gas etc .

[moonhill]

Just to clear it up, I am off grid and don't have the typical power supply.  If that was the case I would have dumped $2500 into a nice roll around floor jobbie with 30 pound spool.  I don't do that much aluminum.  Some of the smaller unites would not do aluminum either.  The spool will crank up and handle whatever the welder will put out=thick stock and I can dial it down to to body work too.  I am adapting to the bulky size of the gun, yes it is a consideration one I am ok with.  I was brought up on a nice welder with a petit gun.  I sometimes find myself cradling the spool gun like a baby.   On my spool I don't have to change tips, one tip size handles all my wire sizes.  Also it is a very rugged unit, with 50 feet of hose and cable.  The floor model in the shop with its 10' hose was at times restrictive.  All in all I am impressed with the unit.  The only down fall I can see is the restriction of reach due to its bulk, I have jammed it into some tight spots.   I could buy a longer flexible tip but am trying to get away with out it. 

Tim

[Hilltop366]

Hi Tim I was wondering if you can easly switch over to Stick if you have to for one of those hard to get at spots?

I have both a old ac stick and a small mig and find I still use the stick often for that heaver and not so clean stuff.

Cheers and thanks.

[moonhill]

Yes, it is easy to switch over to stick.  Just unbolt the one lead and bolt to stick on I don't have to change the ground.  But I don't see myself doing that, I am just a poor stick welder.  I can get the spool into areas where I would have trouble with a stick.  It is a choice though. 

Tim

[mahonda]

http://www.mammothwoodproducts.com/index.html well here is another one to look at. But I don't think i wood buy it. I do like a couple of the ideas they had here but for the most part this just scares me. I'll stick to my blockbuster!

[genesis5521]

Hi Guys. Don here. I appreciate all of your comments and suggestions regarding which welder I should get. I was over in a welding forum, and the consensus there was that for this particular job (building a firewood processor, and working with 1/2 inch thick material) a stick welder is the way to go, and much cheaper. A wire feed model like the Hobart IronMan 230 (which is what they thought I would need to weld thick stuff) would set me back around $1700.00, whereas the Hobart Stickmate® LX 235 AC / 160 DC is $445.00. I know I've opened a can of worms here. Sorry about that. After burning through 50 or 60 pounds of "practice rods", I'll get the hang of stick welding. I just don't think I'm gonna use a welder very much after I get this project completed. I already have a 50 AMP welding outlet in my garage. 8 years ago, the electrician suggested I put one in just in case I ever wanted to get a welder. Who'd a ever thunk?

Motohed (Tim), you're a certified welder, and I know you prefer a wire feed welder, but could I go wrong by getting the Hobart Stickmate® LX 235 AC / 160 DC for this particular project where I'd be welding 1/2 inch thick material?

Again, thanks for all of your input guys.

dON  <><

[genesis5521]

http://www.mammothwoodproducts.com/index.html well here is another one to look at. But I don't think i wood buy it. I do like a couple of the ideas they had here but for the most part this just scares me. I'll stick to my blockbuster!

Thanks Mahonda. I already checked out the Mammoth firewood processor. They want $13,500. for it and it isn't as automated as the Hud-Son Badger which is the same price.

Here's a video on a nifty log splitter. It's the Splitright SR325, but it's $11,000.00 ! ! !
http://www.vimeo.com/7208931

They have lots more videos at: http://www.splitright.com/videos.php

[mahonda]

I'm thinking if i make a cheap but well built small processor I could fill a huge niche market there isn't anything in the size or price range that most people could use.

[genesis5521]

I'll be your first customer Mahonda !  Better for you to build it than me. Where should I send the deposit? You're dead right when you say that there is no U. S. A. manufactured inexpensive processor aimed at the home user market. This thread has been viewed over 1800 times in a relatively short time. Granted, some of those are repeat viewers, but I'll bet that there are a ton of people who would just luv a reasonably priced, well designed, and well built firewood processor. My original post, which started this long, informative, and interesting thread, was for a $7958 processor. It doesn't have to be a high production unit. I'd be happy with a production rate of a full cord every 2 hours, as long as it eliminates bucking logs, and loading rounds on a splitter. It should include a conveyor. It should include a log lift or a winch (like the Hud-Son Badger) to load the logs so no support equipment is necessary. It should be able to handle 16 inch diameter logs. It should be made of as many "off-the-shelf parts" as possible. It should have a hydraulic saw. It should be road legal. It should be towable with an ATV. It shouldn't have a lot of "bells and whistles". Just a sound, basic, and simple design. It should be built with the same quality, care and attention to detail as if you were building it for yourself. It should come standard with a 2, 4, and 6 way wedge. The splitter should be around 30 tons. (35 or 40 tons would be even better for those 4 and 6 way splits of really knotty rounds.) It shouldn't need any "accessories", as everything is included. It should just plain "work" the way one would expect it to, with no negative surprises. Anything in the 7 to 10 thousand dollar price range should sell like peanuts at a ball game. At this price point you should be able to use the highest quality parts and materials, and still make a right decent profit. Yup. It's time for you to launch your new career as the CEO of your own, very successful and very profitable, firewood processor manufacturing company. (Even though you're the CEO, you might still have to wash the windows, or cut the grass once in awhile.) So what are ya wait'n for. Put that chain saw down, get out that welder, and start the sparks a fly'n ! I'll be there on Monday to pick up unit number 2. (Unit number 1 will be your prototype/pre-production unit.)


Don  <><
PS: I checked on the Canadian company which manufactures the $7958 firewood processor. They have a total of 3 employees.

[moonhill]

Don, I thought the 8k unite fit what you were looking for.  I was a little surprised at the comments.  In comparison of cost and effect it seemed like you get what you pay for.  With a proper welder(not stick) you could maintain and upgrade as need be. 

I am guessing the guys in the welder forum are overlooking the learning curve with stick welding.  Quality of the weld would concern me.  I am not a certified welder, hence my crutch the MIG.  You would have one heavy rig if it was all 1/2" stock.  Go try both types of welders you need to experience what you are up against before you put any cash out on a welder/splitter.

Tim

[bandmiller2]

Please don't take offence at what I say.A processor that will handle 16" logs of most any legnth will have to be heavy with expensive components and may not be worth the expense for a single persons heating wood.Kinda like building an asphalt plant to do your driveway.If someone can build their own with scrounged parts yes its practical.To build to sell if you do it right you will end up with a low end commercial processor,and all the liability attached.Possibly design and build a prototype then sell plans with the usual disclamers.Really the work is handling heavy chunks, make/buy a good splitter,have it at a handy working hight.Build a dead deck for the logs with slots every 16 or18"[whatever legnth you burn] so you can easily cut with your chainsaw.Deck is at a hight so the cut chunks can roll on the splitter.A simple conveyer for the split pieces or just throw them in a wagon.I thought about building a processor but my wood comes from a municipal stump dump odd sizes and large chunks.I built a hyd. splitter with a lift/table roll large chunks on it lifts and serves as a table,split pieces go in a nearby trailer.Good luck whatever road you take Frank C.

[genesis5521]

Don, I thought the 8k unite fit what you were looking for.  I was a little surprised at the comments.  In comparison of cost and effect it seemed like you get what you pay for.  With a proper welder(not stick) you could maintain and upgrade as need be. 

I am guessing the guys in the welder forum are overlooking the learning curve with stick welding.  Quality of the weld would concern me.  I am not a certified welder, hence my crutch the MIG.  You would have one heavy rig if it was all 1/2" stock.  Go try both types of welders you need to experience what you are up against before you put any cash out on a welder/splitter.

Tim

Hi Moonhill. I do like that Canadian built 8K machine. But I don't know if it will ever be sold in the U.S. After my initial communication with them, I emailed them a few more times, but haven't received any responses. I don't know what's up with them. So I'm back to building one myself. Unless I can get Mahonda to do it for me

I know many prefer a wire welder. And if I were going to do a lot of projects, maybe then I could justify the cost of something like a Hobart IronMan 230 ($1700.00 at CarQuest). The guys in the welding forum just assumed that a firewood processor would require some welds on thick material, like welding the splitting wedge on to the I-beam. I talked to a salesman at  "CarQuest" who built a wood splitter. He said the wedge popped off the first time he used it. His smaller wire feed welder just didn't have enough juice for welding in that thick spot. He took it to a welding shop, and they stick welded the wedge on for 10 bucks. He's said it's never come off since.

Here's an answer to my post regarding the Hobart Stickmate LX 235 AC / 160 DC at the welders forum: "That Stickmate will be good for the firewood processor project. You will be doing some thick steel plate, and you'll find stick well suited to that. The wire feed for that thick material puts you up in the HH210 or Ironman categories, and much more money. Whichever way you go, you may well end up buying the other type machine as well. A number of us use wire for "everyday" thinner stock, and reserve the stick for material 1/4" and over. You will no doubt be using some 1/2" plate on that project."

Here's another quote: "With a little instruction from someone that knows I have seen guys make good stick welds right off the bat. I have a Stickmate class machine or 2 and its what I use cause its there and works so well. But,,,,, if I was into this, didn't have any machine, decided to buy new I would have to consider the Maxstar. It cost a bit more out of the box but so many things make it cheaper and so useful in the long run. Its really like 2 machines in 1."

I haven't ruled out a wire feed welder, but I'm sure leaning towards the Stickmate LX 235 AC / 160 DC. I would like to try both types of welders. Maybe that will be my next "project".

Thanks for you comments and suggestions moonhill. I started this thread to learn a thing or 2. And I am.

Don  <><

[genesis5521]

Please don't take offence at what I say.A processor that will handle 16" logs of most any legnth will have to be heavy with expensive components and may not be worth the expense for a single persons heating wood.Kinda like building an asphalt plant to do your driveway.If someone can build their own with scrounged parts yes its practical.To build to sell if you do it right you will end up with a low end commercial processor,and all the liability attached.Possibly design and build a prototype then sell plans with the usual disclamers.Really the work is handling heavy chunks, make/buy a good splitter,have it at a handy working hight.Build a dead deck for the logs with slots every 16 or18"[whatever legnth you burn] so you can easily cut with your chainsaw.Deck is at a hight so the cut chunks can roll on the splitter.A simple conveyer for the split pieces or just throw them in a wagon.I thought about building a processor but my wood comes from a municipal stump dump odd sizes and large chunks.I built a hyd. splitter with a lift/table roll large chunks on it lifts and serves as a table,split pieces go in a nearby trailer.Good luck whatever road you take Frank C.

Hi Bandmiller. I couldn't possibly take offense at you for expressing your opinion (which I value). You make some very good points. I guess I'd like a processor that's built like a tank, can do it all, and is dirt cheap. Well I know that ain't gonna happen.

Can you explain what a "dead deck" is? I assume it's something to hold logs. But how do you get the logs on it? Got any pix or diagrams of one you can share with us?

Don  <><

[WH_Conley]

I have a Lincoln 225 AC/DC that use for everything, primarily because that's what I have. I have welded for a living over a lot f the eastern states, used some nice machines, somebody Else's dime. Stick is harder to pick up than wire, but, not impossible. Whichever way you go the same rules apply, don't try to lay down too much metal at a pass, and the machine has to run hot enough to penetrate. Example, the wedge on a splitter would probably 3/4" plate. With a 1/8" rod put about a 1/4" filet weld on followed by another weld from the base metal ending about 1/2 way in the weld. Next pass would be from that weld to the wedge. Both sides done this way. Multiple passes are better that one heavy pass with a smaller machine. My point is not to teach welding, just to show you can do it without breaking the bank on the cost of a welder.

[Hilltop366]

WH  I have a Lincon 225AC, only some times it would be nice to have the Dc too.
If I am welding something thick that will need to be real strong I will cut it to a V and fill it in with lots of passes and lots of chipping and cleaning after each pass this would apply to mig as well (except for the chipping), pita but thats what it takes sometimes.

I am not a welder by profession but I do ok, If people are looking to learn how to weld look around and see if anyone is offering any night classes I took one years ago after I thought I could weld, it improved my welding quite a bit. It showed me what to look for and try when things are not working right. Also I try to do my welding flat when ever possible, and all rods are not created equal even if they have the same number.

[WH_Conley]

Hilltop, what rod you running on that straight AC machine? On DC I use 7018, Ac 7014. The V and multiple passes are a necessary evil of the welding game.

A lot of the welding that was reserved for stick only on construction is going to innersheild wire, Pile splices, tube pile, etc.

[Hilltop366]

I would have to look to be sure But I think 6011 and 7018.
I tried a bit of flux core with my wire feed/ mig welder man never had so many burn holes in my clothes terrible stuff then went to mig/gas shield wow what a difference.

[WH_Conley]

 :D :D :D. Only time they ever let me have gas, unless I cooked the beans, was great. With no gas, keep a little deeper in the puddle and run it hot, puddles too much, lead it out a little more. Only experience will let you get it right.

Looking at your earlier post about flat welding, I used to do the same thing, had an old welder show me a few things, I would rather do vertical or overhead now as flat. Can't tell you how, has to be demonstrated.

[bandmiller2]

Don,I'am afrade the picture post thing continues to elude me.Dead deck,think of timbers laid down parallel with a four inch or so gap between them they just make it easier to cut the log and at a hight to roll on the splitter.Ideal is a setup on a side hill logs can be dumped on the ground and rolled on the deck.A ramp can be used or you could load them with that tractor you sorely need.Wire welders are dandy but one that will handle heavy metal are quite expensive.Stick welding is not that hard to learn like milling you just have to do it.Usally if a weld looks good it is good.An oxy-acet torch is very handy along with a 14" cutoff saw and small angled grinder.Many of the assemblies should be bolted to allow for adjustment.A carefull workman with a few tools can make a machine as good as store bought if he takes his time and dosen't rush and cobble things togather.You may find you enjoy building as much as using.Oh get yourself some 1/8" 7014 rod,they call it drag rod you can actally drag it along a joint and get a good looking weld its a big moral booster when your learning.Frank C.

[thecfarm]

I have a Lincoln mig,SP175T,has 5 settings on it,runs on 220.I only use flux core.I think they changed that to inner shield now.I use gas at work and what a difference.But all my welding is done out side.I'm up on a hill so I get a breeze just about all the time.So that's why I use  no gas.Yes,it does splatter alot more and the unit does cost more.But I like the convenience of no gas.I only have to worry about running out of wire.Years ago when I had a smaller mig,I would of had to travel 30 miles for it.Now every auto parts store carry it.I do weld some thin stuff at times too.That's why I went with the mig.

[beenthere]

..........Can you explain what a "dead deck" is? I assume it's something to hold logs. But how do you get the logs on it? Got any pix or diagrams of one you can share with us?
Don  <><

As mentioned by bandmiller2, the dead deck is simple (logs or timbers to receive logs for milling), and different from a live deck (which has some form of chain or other means of moving the logs forward to the mill).