Using logging tongs.

[Jim_Rogers]

I wrote this story to show how to use a small tractor/backhoe to move logs using the front bucket and a set of logging tongs.

Years ago, before I started saw milling, I used to yard logs for different people and do some logging myself for the old timer who taught me saw milling.

When I first started, I used my father's Case 580 tractor that had a 3-point hitch and a front bucket which was an attachment to it. Years later, we added a Kelley Model 30 backhoe attachment to the 3-point hitch.
To start, when we were young and we'd just hook a chain around the big block bar that went between the two front loader arms and let it hang down over the top curled edge of the bucket. We'd wrap the end of the chain around a log and lift it up and carry it and place it into a pile.
Well it wasn't long until we started breaking chains as it slid over the top curled edge of the bucket. We got a welder to weld a large piece of stock onto the top edge of the bucket with a hole in it so we could attach an U-bolt shackle through the hole. Then we attached a small lop of hardened chain to the shackle U-bolt. Then from this short loop we'd hook a piece of hardened chain long enough to reach down to the cutting edge of the bucket and back up again. From this chain we attached another shackle threw a ring on the logging tongs we had borrowed from another guy.
 



Well, this setup worked well for a while until the guy wanted his tongs back.
Then I went out and got a set of tongs for myself. Well at that time I didn't know the difference between "pulling tongs" and "lifting tongs" and there is a difference. And purchased a set of pulling tongs, you know you've got pulling tongs if there is a hook at the top and lifting tongs if there is a ring.
That's why we used a second shackle in the picture above. Every time I'd lower the tongs over a log they'd fall off the chain. That got old real fast.
When you hang your logging chain and tongs like this and you roll your bucket back to the chain hits the cutting edge it forces the tongs to hang from left to right as you are sitting in the driver's seat. This makes it easy to line up on logs, whether you're in the woods on in the sawmill yard.
Here is a shot of them hanging:




I'd adjust them by moving the hooks up or down on the little loop at the top until I have the hooks hanging like shown in the second picture.
Here is a close up of the loop at the top.


 


You can see the small loop has a bolt in it to hold it together and the hooks are attached so that no pressure or strain is on the bolt. Using this kind of hook up makes it easy to unhook from the backhoe bucket and extend the logging tongs if need be. This will be shown in a later photo.





This shot shows the top of the bucket with the welded steel bar and the center hook for my forks.





The above shot shows the view from the driver's seat when you've got everything hooked up right. The red arrow shows the bar where we used to hook the chains too, and we use that for another step in the moving of logs. Although I don't have a photo of that, more on this later.
Now to lift a log up the first thing you have to do is "Line Up" on the log.





With the logging tongs hanging right and left, you just line up with them centered over the log you intend to hook up and lower the bucket arms down. You might have to do this several times to get them to drop over the log just right but they will and you can do it without leaving the driver's seat. And the more you do it the easier it gets.





This shot shows the tongs over or around a log. They are about 3' or so from the big end of the log. These logs are either 8' or 10' logs, but might be 12's.





This is a shot of the backhoe/tractor lifting the log. You have to roll the bucket back and lift it correctly to bring the end of the log up under the bucket behind the back line where the bottom meets the curved back. This is important to holding the log in the right spot during traveling. You are using the weight of the log by hooking up off center, as the heavy end is hooked up but the tip is left hanging down on an angle. It's important not to roll the bucket back too much, because if you do the log will swing around and hit the backhoe arms.





Above is a shot from the driver's seat. You can see the end of the log at the top at the red arrow, is behind the point where the bottom of the bucket meets the curved backside, (I call it the heel of the bucket).




Above is a shot of the log being carried.





Above is a side view of carrying a log. This shows very nicely how the end of the log needs to be up behind the "heel" of the bucket where the bottom meets the back curved side.





Above is a view from the driver's seat. This shot shows the carrying of the log down the driveway. I usually always hook up the tongs on the big end of the log. And let the tip or top of the log be away from the backhoe. This helps center the total weight of the machine and the log. And it helps with traction problems.
Keeping the log tipped down so that you can see the bottom of the log prevents it from swinging around and hitting the backhoe. That's why I always hook up off the center, so it won't balance and this way you can drive it out of the woods down your narrow logging trail. Or you can back out whichever you prefer. If the log is heavy and you lose your traction, and you are backing out, you just lower it until you get some more traction and then raise it again as you are moving. This way only the end touches the ground, thereby keeping the log "clean" for the mill, especially a mill without a debarker.
And as you are backing out and the log starts to swing too wide because of a corner or curve in the skid trail and will hit some other trees or something you don't want to damage, you just lower the bucket arms or dump the bucket a little until the log slides on the ground by the very end. And you lower it just enough so that the butt of the log is lower than and is not touching the heel of the bucket, doing all this while you're still moving, will cause the log to follow the trail and pivot around a corner or curve in the trail and not damage any standing trees. Once you've made it around the corner or curve in the trail, just roll the bucket back and lift up the arms again to carry the log.

If the log is very heavy or very long, I hook the tongs a little further down the log and let the butt end of the log come up under that big bar between the backhoe arms. But you have to be very careful doing this as it's very close to the radiator. And if you lift up a lot the log will be off balance and can swing around and hit the backhoe. So if you hook up this way do it when you only have to move the log a very few feet.

Now to release the log without leaving the driver's seat you just set it down in the pile or on your truck or trailer, whatever, and lower the bucket onto the tongs as you move forward just a little.





This will push the tongs over and into this position and release the log. As you lift up again sometimes the tongs will "catch" the log again, but most of the time they'll just fall over the side and you can lift-up and back away.

Hooking up a large log.

Some times you'll need to hook up a very large log and your logging tongs might not grab onto the log.





So you'll need to "SET" the tongs.
First you'll have to get the tongs over the intended log in the correct position from the end. As you can see, this log is just about the maximum size I'd try to lift with tongs. Any logs bigger I'd use a choker cable system to attach to the backhoe for moving. See another photo for choker set up detail.





Next you give the hook a whack with a hammer to help "SET" the tongs into the log. Now sometimes it just falls out as you lift, and you'll have to re-position it so it won't. Sometimes you can't do it alone. You'll need another person to lift the backhoe bucket as you 'SET the tongs, especially if the logs are frozen. If the logs are frozen, usually I use a choker cable to prevent them from detaching unexpectedly from the back-hoe.

Unstacking a pile.

Some times you can't get the tongs to drop over a log because the log is nested in the pile. To get it into a good position to "hook up" you some times have to move it once by hooking onto the end of the log and drag it back a few feet.






Choker cable hook ups.





I have two different lengths of chokers. A long one for big logs and a short one for smaller logs. Above is a shot of how I hook up a choker cable to my tongs. The cable didn't come with this hook attached. I put this hook on myself. I've used this setup to pull long logs out to where I could cut them up into shorter lengths before carrying them out to landings.





Here the choker chain end is in the hook of the tongs. This tong hook had been bent by pulling very big and heavy logs, years ago.





Above is a shot of a different way to hook up the choker cable. You can see the hook on the tongs that has been bent open. It also shows why I put the hook on the end of the choker cable. Be very careful that you don't hook the cable too high up the lift chain as when you pull or roll back the bucket the cable will be cut by the cutting edge of your bucket. Place it so that chain part of the choker hits the cutting edge. This is important as you can see, at the white arrow; I learned this the hard way.





The shot above shows how, when you need just a little more chain, to make a log hook up, you can extend your lifting chain. You just move one hook from the little loop down to the side of the lifting chain. This will give you just a little more chain so you can make your hook up. Then once you've pulled this log toward you, and it is now closer, release, and re-hook the lifting chain back to the little loop. Before hooking up the log for carrying.
Whatever you do, be safe doing it.
Jim Rogers.

[Jeff]

WoW!  Instant Knowledge Base Material!

https://forestryforum.com/tips/tips.cgi?display:1067046803-24911.txt

[AtLast]

GREAT JOB Jim....lotsa time went into that post...I use tongs myself....I am in the process of obtaining a trailer with a grapple...but in the meantime I use tongs...." back to basics" I ay...but excellant post and great pics too

[DanG]

Great stuff, Jim. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and for taking the time to put that together.

[Jim_Rogers]

Thanks for all your comments guys.

I actually took all the pictures some time ago. And just re-wrote the story to make it flow.
The part that took the most time was re-sizing all the photos to make them small enough to upload.

I hope this type of story can help a new comer or show some one else how to use the machine you have on hand to do something a bit different with it.
Some times I go places and see the most simple thing and say to myself "look how easy it is to do it that way!" And learn a new or different way to do the same thing. ;)

Jim

[Ed_K]

 Great picts & story Jim, I would have liked to have read that 6 months ago when I bought my tongs from Bailey's. I got so sick of getting on and off the tractor, that I spent more $$$ and added a grapple the front forks. This is nice, now I want the rotor I didn't buy the first time.
 Ed K

[UNCLEBUCK]

thanks jim ! I am gonna try that. I have a pic of what I used ,its a tong with the ring at top hooked to a swivel then to a clevis then I have a hole in edge of bucket which is a very thick bucket like double plates of steel , I have a 2 pound mallet that I pound the tongs in with on hardwood bark or else if I dont pound them in it will not hold on, thats all I got to get trees out with to the field and I always used a choker when I lifted logs on cabin walls so nobody got hurt but man I have a tough time on my own , always open to a better way so I will try this , it looks so simple ya know a big tree laying down in the woods but wow for the weight and sore knees from jumping on and off the backhoe , thanks

[UNCLEBUCK]

[oakiemac]

Great post Jim, thanks for sharing your experience.

[UNCLEBUCK]

between jims way of grabbing logs with tongs and jims way of putting forks on a bucket I think I will write my name on backhoe when I got all this done , the backhoe will say Jim ! ;D thanks again !

[Jim_Rogers]

Thanks for all your comments, again. ;)

When you try this just remember to keep the log tip down near the ground so that you can site the bottom, this way it will not swing around and hit the backhoe. And if it's very heavy you can lower it quickly to prevent a roll over or tip over.
Be very careful lifting heavy logs.

Buck: looks like a nice straight one you've got there.

Jim

[Larry]

Jim,
It takes a lot of work to put together something like that with all the pictures.  I run a similar tong arrangement with both my log forks and bucket.  For some reason it never dawned on me to try your "release" method.  Yesterday hung my tongs lower off the bucket and tried your release.  Worked great.  Going to save me a lot of steps in the future.

Thanks.

Tongs hung on the log forks.

[Jim_Rogers]

Larry:

Nice looking logs there!

Keep trying different ways to release without leaving driver's seat, you'll get it.
Sometimes I just lower and back up and the tongs just slide over one side and off, sometimes they grab.
Just be careful when you push down onto them that they aren't still hooked in hard you can bend them if you push too hard.
Good luck,
Jim

[beenthere]

I also use the logging tongs to snake logs out of the woods, attaching them to the hook on the I-match hitch (Deere's 3 pt quick tach hitch). This white oak was just short of 16'.

[Larry]

Beenthere,
Brother in-law is a great fan of that green stuff and pointed me to your post on TBN last week.  Got forks for the 3 point started Saturday with a place to hang the tongs just like on your I-match.  Only big difference is they will be blue.

Looks like you got a winner to me. 8)

[UNCLEBUCK]

I just had a brainstorm , I am going to weld a clevis to the backhoe arm so I can back up to log and with tongs attached I can lift log end off the ground and away I go driving forward and not have to break my neck looking backwards plus have jims set up on the front bucket , the log in the picture is a 28 foot ash and 28 inch butt , not sure what the top was , all I know is I was overworking tractor pulling backwards, thats a neat john deere pulling that oak. well have fun dragging logs everyone , get big piles of logs and count the days till spring ! ;D great topic jim !

[Tom]

Uncle Buck, a half load of dirt or something for weight in the front end loader of your backhoe (if you have a bucket) will do wonders for traction and steering.

[Fla._Deadheader]

We recently moved a 24' Pine log to the mill and took the 24' 6" X 8" beam, back to the boat. Used a chain, no tongs, roughly the same set-up as Jim described.

[Jim_Rogers]

FlaDH.
That photo looks good and I see you understand the method of hooking it up this way. it makes the piece somewhat stable to move it around.
But you have to be careful, in your photo the piece is too high off the ground at the far end away from the backhoe. You should try and keep it leaning down towards the far end so that it doesn't swing around and hit the backhoe.
Lift the front bucket arms up a little higher and dump the bucket a little should do it, that way the operator can see the piece while he's carrying it.
In the position it's in now the timber/log is hidden from the driver's view by the bucket, and it could start to move the wrong way without him seeing it.
Also move the machine very slowly from mill to stack. I usually travel very slowly especially with a heavy log, first gear low range.
But it looks good.

Jim

[beenthere]

Jim
I don't see the backhoe on FLA's loader tractor. How can the cant (log) swing all the way around to hit a backhoe when it is on the rear of the tractor?  Your previous description (great technique) presented the same confusion for me. What am I missing?   ???

My concern carrying a log or cant this way would be breaking it, but I guess that sorts out the weak ones. ;D

[Jim_Rogers]

Beenthere:
When I say backhoe, I'm using the term to mean the entire machine, not just the digging part.
What I should say is to prevent the log or timber from swinging around and hitting the front bucket lifting arms.
Tomorrow, I'll take another picture to show you what I mean.
Jim

[beenthere]

Jim
Now I realize what you mean. The log gets loose and turns about, hitting the loader arms, not the backhoe (on the back). Makes perfect sense. You have a TLB (tractorloaderbackhoe). :D :

Its the traditional method called the heel-boom, if I remember correctly, used to load/move logs.

[Jim_Rogers]

Here is a shot of a log that swung around and hit the side of the machine:




Another view:



And the drivers view of this:




Here is how to hook up a very long log using the loader arm center connecting block of steel to brace against the long log:



Here is a closeup of the log under the center block:




This is the drivers view:



You have to be real careful of the butt end of the log not hitting your radiator grill, radiator cap, muffler, hoses, or any hydraulic lines when you hook one up this way. Also don't lift it very high as you don't have a much control over it once you've got it hooked up. And again move the machine with the log very slowly, first gear, low range, if you have it.

Here is another shot of an angle hook up:



I use this one sometimes when I have to stack a log onto a pile at an angle. But I don't carry the log very far. It works about the same but you have to be careful of tipping your machine if it's very heavy.

I hope this helps to explain another ways to do things.

Jim Rogers

[johnjbc]

Tried out Jim's technique yesterday. Worked well. Was able to set the log right on the mill loader