Doyle vs International 1/4

[CX3]

I have a small patch of oak to cut.  Most trees will have a dbh of 20 inches averaging 3 eight foot cuts per tree.  Since I am not a mathmetician I need your help.  There are two mills interested in my logs. 

The first mill will grade on international scale.  They pay 40, 30, and 27 cents a foot depending on grade. There should be a fair chance most of these butts will bring in the 30 range.   I also have to pay a nickel a foot to have them hauled to these guys. 

The second mill grades on doyle stick.  They pay 70 cents on white oak staves(I dont think there will be any on this job), 35 for other grade logs, and 25 cents on tie logs.  There will be no haul fee they will come get them free. 

I have tried to figure this job around 25000 BF.  The best I can figure is I lose around 600 bucks on the Doyle stick.  Please let me know what you think about my math skills.  I appreciate your help also.

[Jeff]

Use the calcs in the toolbox to get a comparison of doyle versus International

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=toolbox

[Autocar]

I rather buy and sell logs with the Doyle rule , the board feet is more true I think. Years ago forester use to sell jobs using the Internatioal rule and if you didn't scale all the logs with a doyle rule standing you would pay for more feet then what was there, the mills were buying our logs with a doyle. After years of complaining service foresters in our area went to Doyle rules

[beenthere]

International is a truer estimate of the board footage in a log.

Not Doyle, and the underestimate of the Doyle footage in smaller logs is well known.

The price per bd. ft. adjusts for any differences.

So it means if you want to know the board footage in the log for your own personal satisfaction, use the Int'l scale.

[Ron Scott]

Ditto!

[Kansas]

If it doesn't look like a lot of difference in price, consider the intangibles. Do both mills pay right up?  Do they scale the logs fairly and accurately? Do they grade the logs the same? Sometimes if you know the answer to those questions, that makes a lot of difference.

[Jeff]

Doyle rule , the board feet is more true I think.

Nope, Absolutely not so and I wanted to make sure I emphasize that again here for those that may be finding this information later on down the road.

[ahlkey]

To be clear the Doyle rule measures slabs and edgings differently and it lacks any allowance for log taper. As compared to Int'l the Doyle rule will under scale small logs and over scale large logs. While the International ¼ rule is more accurate in determining yields given all the variables this will vary with mill technology, wood species and other factors.  At the end of the day, differences in each scale are taken in the account by the mills given the yields they typically achieve, and their prices reflect that to a degree.  Personally,  I would be more concerned with accurate grading then what scale is being used.

[Jeff]

Here is an older thread that may give you some additional info on the log scales.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,18015.0.html

[carlotto]

Buy on doyle sell on international

[critter]

         You said the average dbh was 20 inches and going to cut 8 foot logs.
         Your grade is for sure what you what you have to look at. A log at
         16 inch small end average at 8 feet scales 72ft on doyle and 85 on
         international rule , that's at 15 feet difference. Saying that would be
         averge diameter for the first 3 cuts on a 20 inch dbh tree.

[CX3]

Well I wanted to update on this.  We cut two loads of logs and I took a bid from the doyle stick.  He ended up getting them bought.  I was very surprised and would not be afraid to sell on the doyle again.  They actually brought several hundred dollars a load more than I figured they would at the international mill.   I will definetely sell more logs to the guy with the doyle stick. 

I appreciate your input.  I was and still am a little ignorant on the different measurement systems.

[Okrafarmer]

Well I'm still learning all this, and find it fascinating. I think most in this area use Doyle. I'd have to check though.

[tlandrum]

i log by the mbf and the log yard uses the doyle scale but in all reality its the guy running the scale and grade on the logs that will make or break you. i have hauled to mills where my load averaged 2500 ft and take the same type of load to any other mill and it will go 3000 or better. the guy with the stick can definately make a good load go bad...

[Tug Hill Walt]

I like to think that doyle was set up for the output of a circle saw, with a 3/8 or 1/2 inch kerf. More BF with a band of course. International works closer for a band mill. Carlotto  is right, buy doyle sell International, cut with a band.

[SwampDonkey]

All you have to do is look at the tables for Doyle and that of International and see that logs under 40" on the top, scale less on Doyle. Has to be a pretty big log for the scale to favor anyone using Doyle. We don't use either up here, we use Bangor or NB log rule, and in NB scaling is regulated. Has been regulated for a long time which is supposed to make the scaling unbiased.

[CX3]

Well I will say this, I scaled those logs with international before he came out.  I tallied 6670 bf and he bought 7202 bf.  He may or may not have pushed the stick a little also.  His mill is only a half a mile away.

I sold 59 logs today that averaged 88bf each to the same guy.  He must really want these babies cause there was lots of 12" tie logs in there and they only scale around 32 feet.  I am very happy with our dealings with this guy. 

[Ron Wenrich]

A guy with a scale stick can beat you up pretty well, no matter if its a log or a board.  If your logs or lumber is well manufactured, it makes the graders job much easier, and they are more lenient. 

Doyle may not give you as much footage, but the price is adjusted.  The bottom line is that it isn't the footage, its the size of the check. 

[missouri_logger]

well here in missouri you will find that most buyers use doyle good luck with your oak

[SwampDonkey]

I don't know about the price adjustment, and I wouldn't count on it everywhere. ;D But, if I'm beat on scale it's not a good sign to begin with. :D