hi all, been a while need a little advice please

[woeboy]

Hi guys, its been a while, i hope everyone is good. Since I last posted I've moved about 20 miles north to Mossy Head, Fl,a real piece of heaven. We got 2.5 acres at the end of a dead end road and our trailer sits about 300 yds from the road, pure heaven!!!
I had the most amazing firewood season, which gave me a chance to extend my sawmill from 20'(18'logs) to 25' (24'logs). A few 20' oak planks for trailers already made it woth the investment. I also added a winch loading system that makes my day ALOT easier. Now all I need a little tractor and I am all set, but I got to crawl......you know

I got on this nice job a week ago with a logging guy,













sure wish I had 1 of these onsite always  8)




and now I got a problem with waving on these big ones.
I changed the blade, tightened the new blade, checked and completly level all around, and walked at a crawl....all with the same results wavy all the way around.












I have a Turner Mill Sawmill which have rubber tire band wheels instead of a metal band wheels, and I have added a lube system based on the info from this great forum (special thx to DextorDee ur system works great!!), and I have sawn 18" boards with no waves, but now these logs are 24-28" and nothing but waves? I got nothing left but these big (by my standards) logs and Im going crazy tryin to figure what its doing. Is 24-28" too big???? Bill turner the manufacturer says a 30" log is the max size.....



The wood is pine, been down a few months, and the customer wants 1"x12" boards.

any suggestions please

Thanks for your time and advice,
Jason

[customsawyer]

Are you getting any sap build up on the blade?

[beenthere]

Gonna be fun to try for 1x12 boards outta that  ;D

Does your customer have a good sense of humor?

Great pics.

[MotorSeven]

Those are dry pine logs right? Turn the lube completly off and try it. I had the same problem with 1 year old downed pine. The bark was falling off, the more lube the wavy-er it got. After 3 hrs of checking everything on the mill(new blade/tension/leveled the deck/etc) I did a search here. Water w/Dawn detergent & Pinesol, or no lube was the suggestions. I tried no lube...it cut straight.

[woeboy]

Are you getting any sap build up on the blade?

no build up, ran into that problem last year thats where the lube system came up  :D

Gonna be fun to try for 1x12 boards outta that  ;D

Does your customer have a good sense of humor?

Great pics.

he is residing a huge barn with the 1x12's everything else I saw for him is 2x anything

Those are dry pine logs right? Turn the lube completly off and try it. I had the same problem with 1 year old downed pine. The bark was falling off, the more lube the wavy-er it got. After 3 hrs of checking everything on the mill(new blade/tension/leveled the deck/etc) I did a search here. Water w/Dawn detergent & Pinesol, or no lube was the suggestions. I tried no lube...it cut straight.

dude thx sooo much I am going to try everything anyone suggests, i really need to saw these logs straight there is about 6k more bf
thanks again all

[Bill Gaiche]

woeboy, Have you streached a string from first bunk to last bunk to see that all bunks are even.

[Peter Drouin]

im not sure but ,the blade looks to be loosing set , back to far on the guide wheels?  fill the tires hard and tighten the blade up a lot? I dont know just some ideas . maybe someone here has a mill like yours. good luck

[Coon]

I would say that it is your roller guides outta whack. If you got the time check out the videos on Cooks saw mfg on youtube.  He explains alot about blades that you normally don't think about. 

Brad.

[wannasaw]

start back at square 1. I like to change logs altogether. Don't make adjustments based soley on what lands on the saw today.What works fine today doh't always work tomorrow morn. seek the obvious first. 2 cents and good luck

[bandmiller2]

Jason,first thing I would do is put one of your normal logs on the mill and try it,if you still have the problem its the band or mill. If the outher log cuts fine you know its the dry pine causing problems.Try more or less set and less hook. Give your neighbor Tim Cook A call he's a sharp dude when it comes to these problems. Frank C.

[GF]

What set are you running on the blades? My first guess would be you are not running enough set for the wider cut.

GF

[ladylake]

 Yes, dry pine logs like a lot of set.   Steve

[DanG]

Woeboy, I think I might see where your problem is.  Look back at that last picture of the level on top of the cant.  On the side of the cant, you can see the grain of the log.  Right where your cut took a dive, the grain curved downward to go around a big ol' knot.  Those dark streaks are the late wood that grew in the winter.  In those loblolly pines, it is thick and tough, where the light colored early, summer-grown wood is soft and tender.  When the grain has those curves in it, the blade will tend to follow it.  Even my circle blade will follow it sometimes if conditions are just right(wrong?).

I'm not a bandmill guy, but I'm thinking if you turned that log so that curved grain lays on top, horizontally oriented, you would cut straight.  After a few boards you will encounter it again because you will have reached the other side of the knot, so you turn it again.  You may not end up with the exact sized boards you would like, but at least what you have will be straight.

Now if my theory turns out to be correct, you will learn to predict where you are likely to run into this problem, and plan your sawing to avoid it.  I have watched some really good bandsawyers, namely Tom, Woodbowl, and Customsawyer, quite a bit and they are all real particular about how the log sits on the mill before they open it.  I'll be saying, "Why is he flipping that thing around like that?"  Well he is reading the log and imagining how the lumber inside will look, based on what he sees on the surface.  Learn to do that and you'll be a better sawyer. ;)

[terrifictimbersllc]

No doubt this is difficult wood to cut straight.   Extremely sharp blades, right amount of set, right tension, and not going too fast, especially around knots, will help.   I have on occasion used several fresh blades to keep cuts flat while get a large high quality log under control.    Those blades can then be used for their normal sharp life on the narrower cuts.

All other things being equal, wider cuts are more challenging and can amplify some problems already present. Probably would help to cut the cant into pieces 13" wide so you only have to saw this width. Also any big slabs take them down to this width so you can try to trim out the wave making narrower cuts.  Good luck.

[pa_of_6]

I have cut a couple million bf of them oversized logs.

Pine are my favorite compared to spruce...Pine are a denser wood and seem to just cut better.

But what I did is

1- Set wider. I was setting as much as 35 to 38 thou. Now for that kind of set you need a thicker band.
   I was running the .055 from cooksaw...their supersharp( and mr  tim cook is one of the nicest people you will ever chat with)
Most bands come from the supplier with set that is half the thickness if the band.
Example...   .055 bands come with .026 set, .034 bands come with 015-016 set.

And yes, it requires power to cut that much...so u will be whippin your ponies.

Second, be sure that band is sharp....and set before sharpening.

Now when you set that much, u kinda screw with the geometry of the tooth.
The tooth is bent over and the top of the tooth will not be square with the band. So when you sharpen it you will not be sharpening the very outside of the tooth....unless you run thru the grinder a couple of times.

Cooksaw actually would set to .038 for me and then sharpen the band so that the tooth was flat across the top.
It was very cost effective for me. I did pay only slightly more per band for it, but well worth it.

It is very important that the OUTSIDE of the tooth is sharp and flat relative to the band.

Also...I used diesel as a lub. Doesnt take much either....gotta keep that pitch off the band or it will make it wave.

Be sure that your rollers and band is flat in relation to the bed of your mill.

And...when you talk to Mr Cook....you have to chat about the band roller.....that band has got to be flat.
You cannot guide a rocking chair....and if you have a negative curve in your band...you will only have one point of the band contacting the roller....and you cannot guide it with only one point of contact.

You need two points of contact and that is what the roller does for you...takes the negative curve out of the band and puts in a positve curve allowing for 2 points of contact.


If all else fails.....chang the name of your mill to

Seaside Sawing....with the caption Becasue every now and then there is a little wave.

[vadimo]

I find this publication on internet. This is from Australian Goverment. Title is: Using portable sawmills to produce high value timber from farm trees in the semi-arid zone. Is free for download in pdf file or you can it too buy.
In this publications is theory and practice. Is compared differents blade tension, blade setting, push force, etc.
Are presents also circle saws.
Very very good book.

Michal.

[jim king]

I have seen this problem when sawing long logs.  Put a water hose on the blade to keep it cool and dont loose the tension.

[MartyParsons]

The first couple pictures look like the log was out of square, other pictures looks like the blade is diving this could be caused by loose drive belt, dull blade, dirty blade, blade tension, blade alignment. If it saws small logs then it will not saw larger logs the blade speed may be changing, so slipping drive belt or sawing to fast ( Feed Rate) or low hp. If the band speed changes it will dive.
Hope this helps!
Marty

[Tom]

That crowning across the log is generally a sign of too little or too much tooth rake/hook  That is the angle that the face of the tooth takes as it goes toward the gullet and makes it look like it is leaning forward.  

The longitudinal dipping or rising is generally a combination of set and forward carriage/head speed.   You can correct it sometimes by adding some band tension but the real solution is a combination of set and sharpness.  Anything that would allow the band to follow the grain is suspect.  That is why the guides must be properly set too.  If the guide roller is too far back on the band, the band can tilt.  Another problem with this scenario is that the back of the band will develop cracks because it is having to "reach" too far before it is supported by the lip at the back of the roller.

When making corrections, don't change a whole bunch of things at once.  Do things systematically and one at a time.  That way you will have a better chance of finding out what fixed it.

It's always good to have a band handy that you know is good.  If you put it on the saw and it doesn't cut, you can pretty much figure that the problem belongs to the saw.   If it does cut, the chances are pretty good that it is the configuration or sharpness of the other band.