Feelings on Ash for wide board flooring

[repmma]

I have a good amount of large ash, thinking I would like to use it for wide board flooring.  Anyone have an opinion on ash and its uses?  I'm not concerned about a little cracking or gaps opening up seasonally, its just character in my mind.  Anyone can have a more "traditional" hardwood floor with that 2 1/2" strip stuff!! 

[cutterboy]

Ash certainly is a nice looking wood. It has interesting grain patterns like oak, and is quite hard. I think it would make a handsome floor. However, you don't often see a wide board hardwood floor and there may be a good reason why. I don't know.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Some one showed some pictures of an Ash floor some time back and I can't remember who it was.

[Al_Smith]

 I imagine what you'll find is too wide of board would have a tendency to cup .

[laffs]

think im going to try some in a camp im going to build, 6" being the widest I will use. I have seen pine in old farm houses 12" wide

[Magicman]

I will be installing some T&G 12" SYP for flooring in the Cabin Addition.  As I did with the 12" White Oak porch, it will be "smile" up so that any cupping will have a tendency to force the edges down.


 
Right or wrong, that is just my way of doing it.  Others may do it differently, and that is OK.

[red oaks lumber]

ash makes for a very stable floor, if its dried correct you wont have any problems with going 6" wide.

magic, what does your post have to do with ash floor? ;)

[T Welsh]

Poor mans oak is what it is called in my neck of the woods. It has the same characteristics of oak. It will do well on a floor,You dont want to go wider than 8" or 10" wide because of cupping. Tim

[Delawhere Jack]

I will be installing some T&G 12" SYP for flooring in the Cabin Addition.  As I did with the 12" White Oak porch, it will be "smile" up so that any cupping will have a tendency to force the edges down.


 
Right or wrong, that is just my way of doing it.  Others may do it differently, and that is OK.

A common practice on wide old flooring was to alternate each board, rings up-rings down. Then if the wood did cup, it would be more of a wave, instead of lots of ridges or humps. It's something of a lost art now with 2 1/4" T&G having become the standard.

[Al_Smith]

I don't know much about hardwood flooring except millions of dollars worth of it got covered with wall to wall carpeting in the 60's .

However recently I removed about 400 square feet of Bruce fireside planking ,red oak rustic ,hobnail .Saved it for later usage.
There were several widths involved up to around 6 inches .All the flooring was grooved on the underside .I just assumed this to lessen the effects of cupping .

[Delawhere Jack]

Repmma, it you want to go really wide, it might be worthwhile to kerf (curf?) the bottom side every 3-4 inches about 1/3 of the way through the thickness, to relieve any stress. Drilling-screwing-and plugging across the width would also help insure that it stays nice and flat.

I am by no means a flooring expert, just a couple thoughts that came to mind.

[Magicman]

magic, what does your post have to do with ash floor? ;)

The OP was also indicating that he was intending to use "wide" boards.  Wide board cupping was mentioned in a subsequent post and I was simply showing that I turned wide boards "smile" up to minimize the raised edges.

I also stated that I would be using some 12" T&G SYP for flooring which will also be installed "smile" up.  It is far easier for me to hold the center of a cupped wide board down than the edges.

To me, adding any information that may be of a benefit to the OP is following the line of the thread.

[Dodgy Loner]

Magicman's post was about as pertinent as it comes. I think his advice on how to install the flooring is sound. I would not hesitate to use boards up to 12" wide for flooring if I were not concerned about the gaps. Face-nailing is definitely the way to go, and arranging the grain as Magicman stated is added insurance. As others have said, ash makes a great floor.

[hackberry jake]

I donated lumber/tool use/ labor/ hardware over the weekend to build a wheelchair ramp for my neighbors handicapped daughter. I did like magic and installed smile side up. I tend to overbuild things anyways, but when it comes to a 14 year old handicapped girl taking her motorized wheelchair up something I built, I don't even try not to. Three sixteen foot white oak 2x6s for the frame, 1.5" white oak and black locust for the decking, and three sets of legs underneath it with braces all over the place. I even re-enforced their porch. I think I could drive one side of my truck on it without collapse. I also used all screw construction and plenty of em. (now that I think about it, this doesn't pertain to ash flooring either)

[markd]

I installed some  random width ash boards ranging from 6" to 12" mixed in with some white oak and after 35 yrs you can hardly tell which is which. They all aged very well and show no signs of wear. I screwed them down and plugged the holes with raised plugs. It made an interesting floor and I'm planning to install an all ash floor in my livingroom in the near future. I'll saw them this summer and air dry them for a year. Markd

[repmma]

All good feedback thank you.  I had figured on screwing down and plugging, not just for better control of the board movement but again for some character.  I'll put more thought into the width, probably wouldnt have gone over 10" but maybe i'll narrow it down to 6"-8".  Long way from pictures, the tree's are still standing... maybe in a couple years!

[Al_Smith]

Regarding ash if you prepair the surface correctly and use the right stain it's hard to tell from oak .

I did a bunch of ash trim,window valances,wide window sills  etc. from ash two summers ago .All air dried and used red mahogony stain .It is nearly a perfect match to the already installed red oak cabinetry in the kitchen addition on the house .

Relatively easy to work plus the fact oak makes my eyes water and I sneeeze up a storm from the dust .With ash I have no reaction .Poor mans oak but I like it . ;D

[SwampDonkey]

There is a flooring plant across the river, they use ash. Any ash that I have used is quite hard stuff. It planes up like glass.

[red oaks lumber]

the original post asked specific about ash, last time i knew pine and w.oak were nothing like ash. if the flooring is planed with back relief you have only one face to use and should already be flat. thats all i'm saying.

[cutterboy]

  Long way from pictures, the tree's are still standing...

We like pictures of trees  ;D

[repmma]

Any information is appreciated.  I'm open to hearing all ideas, if you mention red oak or pine tactics I wont be disgruntled!!  If it goes off topic, its just something else for me to learn. 

[SwampDonkey]

Red, as you know these topics wain and turn in other directions as everyone likes to share a little something extra in the moment.  ;)

[Klicker]

I did a wide pine floor with pine. I made my boards go the full width of the room but there was a swipe  in the boards  so when you pushed the boards in at one end   there was a gap at the other. The person helping said we had to cut them and pieces them to get around them. I said they where going down without any joints. I got a 2x4 and screwed it down and used a screw   jack  from a Datsun it worked great. The boards stayed tight  there is a couple of spots where you can place  a quarter on edge but not many. Rod

[dboyt]

The best advice is hidden in the above posts.  Ash is a pretty stable wood, hard and durable.  1) make sure it is properly dried, and 2) tongue & groove it and put relief cuts on the back.  All wood shares similar properties of shrinking and cupping, so experience and expertise with any wide plank flooring applies.  Would love to see some photos of the floor.

[5quarter]

I use shiplap edges when installing a wide plank floors. one screwline per board. Predrill about 1/2 again the width of the screwshank to give it some room to move. Use 3" pocket screws and drive them through the subfloor into the joist. eliminates squeaking. You might have some trouble with 12" ash cupping up in the centers. If so, run a second screwline down the centers. twice the work, but the floor will stay flat. Ash will make a beautiful floor.

I thought Oak was called the poor mans Ash?   ;)

[thecfarm]

With all this talk about how ash look I might use it on the wife's veggie shack. I will saw it all 3-4 inches. I have no way to do anything to it besides plane it.

[shelbycharger400]

just to get a rise out of someone..   

still wish this log was uncut when i got it.  3 ft and 4 ft.   the 4 ft one is 17 in dia.  took everything me and a buddy had to get it in the truck to get it home.

the cluster of the 3rd stall.    that one cant..is 6 inches thick and 3 ft long.   it will be resawed as soon as i bring a welder here to fix an issue, currently i get about a 75 deg angle not a nice 90 after i 1/4 turn the log ...lol

[Magicman]

Now you've got to figure out a nice project for that beauty.   ;D

[shelbycharger400]

i havent seen the question on this thread asked...  for flooring and cabinet stock,   should the board be ripped to rough dimensions prior to drying ?

[dboyt]

Ripping can save a little room in the kiln, but drying can reduce the width by as much as 10%, depending on species, type of cut, and whether you rip it green or air dry.  You will also lose some width when you tongue and groove it.  If you rip the boards before drying them, be sure to account for this.  An 8" board on the floor would need to be cut 9" wide on the mill.

[PA_Walnut]

I'd take a wide floor with cupped edges any day over that narrow main-stream material. I think the negativity about wide flooring has been propagated by the manufacturers of the other stuff.  :(

I've done quite a few wide floor installs for my own projects and haven't had a single problem with any of them. Proper handling (drying) and installation is key. I always let the material acclimate to the house for at LEAST a week...more if possible. Tongue and groove makes is near impossible for the edges to lift/cup. 

Wide ash will be lovely! Post pix!

[Magicman]

(Note:  I could not get the links to cooperate.  The first one shows the lumber and the second during the install.)

This topic is 6 years old but I did indeed use 6" & 8" Ash for flooring in my Cabin Addition

 Cabin Addition.

[DR Buck]

This is an old topic that has been resurected.    Here iis another one I started more recently on ash flooring.   Some of the post have pictures.  ;D   

Ash for flooring in General Woodworking
   

I still haven't started my flooring as we have not yet put on the new addition.   That effort starts in mid April.    I hope to be making flooring by late summer this year.

[SwampDonkey]

Years ago, maple flooring up this way was 2", built in the 40's. It's in all the local farm houses of the day and old school house floors where hardwood was put down. The oak and birch stuff you buy now for floors are an 1-1/2" -2" wider.

[Brad_bb]

Ash of course is commonly used for flooring so no issue there.  I can tell you that 12" wide Ash boards from the outside of the log will many times want to cup.  Sometimes you get lucky and it's only slight and you can plane it out, but sometimes it will cup all of a half inch or more.  Manytimes the cup is much worse at one end of the board than the other.  Cut off the worst part, then rip it into two 6 inch wide boards if you think you will be able to plane those flat.  If it's cupped too bad, burn it.

I've never quarter sawn Ash, but I'm sure if you did, on a big enough log, you'd get stable wide boards.  When I flat saw wide boards from the middle third of the log, they are generally pretty stable(they are by default rift and quarter sawn).

You know, could do traditional quarter sawing(as opposed to Reverse Roll Quarter sawing), and end up with some pretty stable stuff and mix widths in your floor.  If you're dead set on all wide, you'll need 27+ inch logs and Reverse Roll them.  That will take you some time, but you'll get more wide boards and they'll be stable.  You may need larger than 27 inch logs in order to remove the pith and the sapwood.

[moodnacreek]

After the rough lumber has been dried and planed it should be dried again in a warm, dry, airy place.  Immediately after the floor is sanded it must be painted with whatever you are using [first coat]  Don't wait until the next day. If the installed floor shrinks anymore it will reverse cup and not be a problem. Ditto on table tops, etc. This tip can make a project successful that otherwise would not have been.


















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[carykong]

Go wide
Then go thick
My 2000sqft floor was sawed with my old lt25 5/4 red and white oak
Finished board was just over 4/4 some widths up to 10"
Good results but floor is rustic
Some cupping occurred but acceptable for this guy

[Ianab]

i havent seen the question on this thread asked...  for flooring and cabinet stock,   should the board be ripped to rough dimensions prior to drying ?

Possibly get better results by drying wide, then ripping. If you rip to final size, the board will both shrink, and possibly crook (side bend). Then you have to straight line rip the crook out, and end up with an even narrower board. 
And if a wide board does happen to cup badly (more than you can plane out) you can always rip it into a couple of narrower (but but still usable) boards later. 
But with my mill, I saw dimensioned boards anyway. Wider boards are slower and a lot more brainwork, so I would generally just cut 4" or 6" x whatever and straighten them up as needed later. 

[Beavertooth]

To me ash is way prettier than red oak and has been my experience that ash has way less moisture in it and therefore does not want to twist, cup, and split hardly at all compared to oak as oak generally is going to air dry to fast and act up. 

[RAYGYVER]

So, I read through this post. I'm at the beginning of an Ash wood floor project myself. I want to go wide. So, if I want to go 8"-10" wide boards, how thick should I go? Is thicker more stable from cupping/warping? I will be bottom kerfing. Undecided on square edges or shiplap. Not going T&G or Splines. Its a shop floor that I want to be able to pull up boards to replace if they get damaged or too soaked in the inevitable transmission fluid spill....

Also going with sleepers to face nail to. How thick and wide should the sleepers be? Thicker than floor boards? 

[petefrom bearswamp]

Is it on a slab or joists?
Air or kiln dried?
If joists what spacing.
Screwed or nailed.
IMO thicker is better for shop floor to take the abuse and I wouldnt worry about gaps due to shrinkage and some sweep in the boards.
I wouldnt worry about some oil spilling either.
Some old machine shops and factory had purposely oil soaked floors.

[RAYGYVER]

Is it on a slab or joists?
Air or kiln dried?
If joists what spacing.
Screwed or nailed.
IMO thicker is better for shop floor to take the abuse and I wouldnt worry about gaps due to shrinkage and some sweep in the boards.
I wouldnt worry about some oil spilling either.
Some old machine shops and factory had purposely oil soaked floors.

Its being screwed to sleepers, not sure on spacing. If I go with 8" wide final boards, I'm shooting for over 1" thick. maybe 5/4 or 6/4 final? 
I am guessing 6/4 rough sawn, then air dry. Plane and rip cuts to final dims of 5/4 x 8" wide, shiplap, kerfed bottoms. I think 12" sleeper spacing is pretty close, so maybe go 16". I might tighten up the spacing under where the four post lift will sit.
Pic below shows from bottom...subsoil, 4" gravel, 1" leveling sand, 1" foam, 1" thick sleepers with foam in between, then final layer of floor boards. Also shown is a perimeter foam board to serve as insulation/water barrier from outside. Only shown 12" deep but should probably go 24". 
So, I really just need help with sizing the floor boards and the sleepers in respect to the moisture content, cupping etc.  I will be milling on an HM126, and air drying in the barn they will find their final resting place in.


  

[alanh]

I use ash for the floors in my shed kits, I cut it 5/4 and shiplap it, works great in that application but shed floors don`t tend to get too dry.

[RAYGYVER]

I use ash for the floors in my shed kits, I cut it 5/4 and shiplap it, works great in that application but shed floors don`t tend to get too dry.

Nice, so you sell shed kits? That is cool

[alanh]

I use ash for the floors in my shed kits, I cut it 5/4 and shiplap it, works great in that application but shed floors don`t tend to get too dry.

Nice, so you sell shed kits? That is cool

yep, I sold a few, along with a family giveaway, I came into a *stuff ton of pine logs from blow overs so its a way to move some, also have plenty of ash

[Satamax]

Guys, for wide board flooring, a good trick, is to put a screw in the middle, with a wood plug to hide it.