DuPont Lets Engineering Contract For Iowa Cellulosic Ethanol Project

[submarinesailor]

This is interesting in that it is cellilosic, not corn.  And that it is going to be located next to Lincolnway Energy LLC's conventional ethanol plant and that corn cob is one of it's cellulosic feed stocks.  It sounds like they are going to be using a waste prtoduct from one plant to produce ethanol.

http://www.ogj.com/articles/2012/07/dupont-lets-engineering-contract-for-iowa-cellulosic-ethanol-project.html?cmpid=EnlDailyJuly62012

Bruce

[WDH]

It will be interesting to see if it gets off the ground.  No one has been successful with cellulosic ethanol at scale.

[Norm]

There is not enough energy in the feedstock to make celluosic ethanol work. We're better off leaving it for the nutrients and organic matter it adds to the soil.

As soon as the subsidy money dries up this will close.

[Kansas]

Kind of my thoughts, Norm, with a few questions. What exactly happens to the residue after they get the ethanol out of all of that? They get the ethanol out of corn, and wind up with a high protein, although lower energy, cattle feed out of it. What is going to be the composition of the remains after they get done squeezing  everything out of the cellulose material? And what will be done with it? I haven't heard that part yet. The other thing is, are they going to pay enough, sans subsidies which will not forever last, to pay to deliver said product to the plant, and pay for additional fertilizer to replace what they harvested. I do see farmers around here roll up big round bales of corn stalks and such every year, or turn the cattle in to graze on them. Same with baling up straw from wheat. These are some of the best farmers I know.

[WDH]

Most of the cellulosic ethanol wannabes in the South have focused on wood.

[Kansas]

They are focusing hard on wood up here, mostly centering on ERC.

[Rocky_Ranger]

What are you guys hearing regarding success with using wood for cellulosic ethanol?

[tyb525]

When the country realizes ethanol is not the answer...well I'll be glad I didn't invest in those ethanol companies!

[WDH]

What are you guys hearing regarding success with using wood for cellulosic ethanol?

Only that it has not been done at a scale facility in a production mode.  It has been done in small pilot plants and the lab.  The enzymes required to convert the cellulose are different than those used on corn. 

[Kansas]

There are a number of full scale plants scaling up. The pilot stage is about past. Will it work? Dunno. The amount of money pouring into these projects is incredible. Someone thinks it will. And its big name people that are the type that are in the know.

[Claybraker]

What are you guys hearing regarding success with using wood for cellulosic ethanol?

I haven't heard any success, but here's a rather expensive failure, at least so far.
http://www.ajc.com/business/georgia-ethanol-plant-sold-1289567.html

[WDH]

Here is a summary of potential demand for wood bioenergy.  A comment besides the potential demand graph states that cellulosic ethanol is not operational.

http://forisk.com/UserFiles/File/WBUS%20free%20201206.pdf

[Kansas]

I know the Abengoa plant in Hugoton Kansas is slated to start in 2013. They did their pilot project and this is the scale up version. Construction has already started. Still waiting on word of all the projects possibly going that will involve taking ERC from the pastures and such and turning it into ethanol. Lot of projects happening all over the place. The algae to oil I am absolutely convinced will work. The cellulistic ethanol projects, I am a bit more skeptical. The problem I have is with the freight. With algae, you can have drop in fuels, a barrel of oil, tailor it to chemical production whatever. But you are producing it on site. Its the freight that kills you on other projects. Can you chip cedar trees and haul them 200 miles to the plant and still be profitable? Intuitively, I say no. How far can you haul corn stover and still have enough money for everyone? No one seems to be able to give me these answers. At least with a corn ethanol plant you are going shorter distances with corn. But it is also much more energy intense than corn stover or switchgrass. And switchgrass will either have to compete with CRP payments or farm ground. Might work on marginal ground out in Western Kansas. Can't see it working in Iowa.

[Mark Wentzell]

Ethanol does have its share of drawbacks. I've read some about the research going into deriving an alkane based fuel from woody biomass that would be very similar to gasoline. Not sure if that will ever happen though.

Up here in New Brunswick there's an over abundance of pulpwood, I'm sure an ethanol plant built up here would have no issue finding cheap feedstock. 

[SPIKER]

Out of all of the looking I've done for personal wealth creation (IE Investing for my future) has been (RTK) Rentech who make synthetic fuel.   I sold out of all my stock in them when oil prices faltered last fall and have not gotten back in.   BUT they take all sorts of carbon containing feed stocks and convert them using Fischer tropic processes (Same way Germany made fuel in WWII)   They can make it using Nat Gas, Coal, wood, municipal garbage etc.  The big thing about them is they can set up small portable units on-site for say a abandoned coal mine (lots of them in southern Ohio & Appalachian areas now.   Not to mention all the Flaring of Nat Gas out west to get the oil out of the Dakotas where there are no gas lines to transport it out.    The Gov should force small localized Production plants portable ones at that to use this now wasted fuel.

Mark