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Author Topic: The general economy.  (Read 1575 times)

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Offline krazykioti

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The general economy.
« on: November 17, 2012, 11:29:11 AM »
Hello,I have been away for a while.I have been wondering if there has been any improvement in the lumber economy in the last year.Still sitting on 100,000 bd. ft. of timber that I don't know what to do with. I still refuse to sell for .25-.35 cents per board foot.I still want to buy some equipment once the economy starts to roll again.And process my own logs.Timberland is selling real fast where I live.Probably people jumping out of the stock market.I found a piece of property 65 acres with 150,000 bd.ft of cherry,hard & soft maple,red oak,ogm's ,for $125,000.Worth the money ?

Offline beenthere

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2012, 11:54:53 AM »

Quote
Still sitting on 100,000 bd. ft. of timber that I don't know what to do with.

I assume the timber is still standing. Have you looked into setting up a sale with bids?
What price would you accept?

This the 98,000 ft mentioned in this thread?
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,50336.msg727157.html#msg727157
south central Wisconsin
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Offline krazykioti

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 12:17:49 PM »
Yup ,it is still standing.I have gotten more realistic about the value.But I do not wish to clear cut it.If I could saw & dry 5,000 -7,500 board feet a year and find a buyer for it I would go that route.To me there is no value in money.The only real value is in timber & land & machinery.

Offline krazykioti

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 12:25:52 PM »
Is $2-$3 a board foot out of the question for being sawn & planed & dried.This being hard & soft maple, ash , red oak , black cherry ?

Offline beenthere

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 02:29:03 PM »
Nothing out of the question if you can find someone to pay that price for boards.

Twice that if they are clear boards, dried and standing in one of the box stores waiting for a buyer wanting just a board or two.

But that is a tough customer or two to find for your 5000 bd ft. that will be a mix of quality that covers the gamut.

But then I'm not sure what you have in mind for sorting out the high quality and what % of that sort you are asking $2-3 for a board foot.  What do you have in mind?
south central Wisconsin
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Offline krazykioti

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2012, 03:30:07 PM »
Actually hoping to quartersawing .The Amish are moving into my are.Hopefully some of them will be furniture makers.My area use  thrive in furniture manufacturing.It will never return to that level.But it could easilly sustain people that want to be in a specialized market.Cabinet makers,table ,chairs,chests,desks,and so on and so forth.It is not that we have a shortage of timber,just the opposite.We have a shortage of people that can or want to buy beautiful hard wood furniture.Most people have to buy the stuff like Bush or Sauder because of the economic situation.The last 1.5 years I have pretty much forgot about the idea .I changed jobs & started working 50 hours per week.Now things have tapered off a little bit & now working 45. Has any of the furniture market picked up at all?

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2012, 06:51:47 AM »
Some will be furniture makers, some will be farmers, and some will have sawmills. 

I haven't heard anything about prices picking up that much.  Usually what happens is they slip the grade a little when markets are better before prices go up all that much.  Same goes for veneer markets.  The only markets to maintain their value have tended to be the tie and pallet cant market.  You get $40/Mbf for the pallet cants and you don't need to dry or wait to find customers.  Most guys doing that market saw quite a bit more.

If you're sawing that small of an amount, you won't find much of a market in the furniture grade.  They look for steady supply, unless you find some specialty niche.  A small amount would be geared more towards the hobbyist.  They pay more, but tend to be fussier.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline krazykioti

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2012, 09:25:32 AM »
I think that is more the market I would look for.With the hobbiyist.I would possibly sell on craigslist or ebay or pennwoods.Now if I could find a local NHLA class .

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2012, 10:00:28 AM »
If you're selling to hobbyist, NHLA doesn't need to come into it.  Most hobbyists don't understand lumber grades the way they are made for the industry.  NHLA is an industrial standard.  Your grades might be clear, nearly clear, and a few knots, for example. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline krazykioti

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2012, 10:25:14 AM »
How important is board length? If you need to saw a shorter log in order to eliminate knots. Example a 60 inch board.Will people buy shorter boards ? Or should you avoid that situation and stick to a minimum board length of 8 feet ?

Offline beenthere

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2012, 10:42:08 AM »
Likely length will be most important in the stickering, drying, storage and stacking exercises, that will precede the sales op.
You may learn all this as you go along and at some point decide on the best lengths for your operation and your customers.
Bucking logs for best quality will become important to your profitability.
south central Wisconsin
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Offline Kansas

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2012, 10:49:32 AM »
We have short lumber piled seperately, but it moves just as well. Depends on who your customers are. I don't know how many times someone buys an 8 or 10 foot board, then asks us to cut it in 2 or 3 pieces to get in their minivan. Sometimes they have it cut right at the knot somewhere on the board. Sometimes not. If you are retailing lumber, length is no big deal, if you are dealing with a variety of customers. Only in the commercial market is it.

Offline krazykioti

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2012, 10:53:10 AM »
Maybe the best thing to do before I buy a mill & skidding winch, would be to hire a someone with a mill .Have them saw up some logs for grade & have them kiln dried & try to find a buyer.It would be better to lose a little money vs a lot of money.

Offline shelbycharger400

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2012, 11:02:07 AM »
I only saw for myself and sell to hobby woodworkers. I dont avertise.  I work 40 hrs at my regular job.
Some people shilly shally and are real fussy, some grab and go.
The hobby builders dont care on board lengths, and like unedged boards

If your sitting on 100k bd ft of lumber, call a few cabinet shops, it can't hurt. Im shure they like to eat too, a few dollars cheaper than some other guy they might bite.
Some do like to buy small lots, Smaller builders don't have the space or cash flow to sit on raw materials.

Offline krazykioti

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2012, 11:04:34 AM »
My biggest hope if the economy improves would be to set up a building for storing a mill & lumber.Buy a moulder & planer & do custom mill work .Make mouldings & flooring & components for doors and windows.

Offline krazykioti

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2012, 11:08:04 AM »
SHELBYCHARGER 400. Would a cabinet maker maybe look for a specified amount of board feet. Example 600 bd.ft. to build a cabinet & table & chairs for a customer ?

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: The general economy.
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2012, 03:02:51 PM »
In my area there are a couple hundred cabinet makers.  They generally go to a lumber wholesaler for their lumber.  The wholesaler will deal in small lots, usually go by NHLA rules, and have their own delivery trucks and quite often their own kilns.  Some will go directly to mills, especially for a specialty item.  We used to saw 12' FAS 5/4 red oak for a guy that made dining room tables.  He had an autoclave and would steam and bend the skirts.  We picked it out as we sawed red oak.  There were no others that came to us, but we didn't do any marketing to attract them.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.


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