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Author Topic: East Texas Sawmills  (Read 11232 times)

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Offline learner

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East Texas Sawmills
« on: January 13, 2013, 05:34:02 PM »
I'm not sure if Jeff will approve of this but I've been thinking we need a place for Individual area Sawmill Owners to get together and talk about things in their areas.  Being a New sawmill I'm still learning all about the bussiness, tools, species of logs, sawing etc.
So I thought maybe being able to connect with other sawyers in our semi-local areas might help us all.  For instance; We are currently paying $45 per ton for pine and hardwoods, $80  per ton for cedar, delivered to us.  What is everyone else paying?  I know I can check several places for the going rates but they ALL want money for information that I think should be free.  If you buy logs using the Doyle or International scale, do you allow for the extra wood that our thin kerf mills can get from a log, as compared to when those scales were first introduced?  Do you add a percentage to each log for instance?
Do you have a web-site?  Who do you use to Host it?  Any advice or suggestions?  I look forward to hearing from some of you other East Texas sawyers about how You handle things.  Who knows?  Maybe we could help each other out with wanted logs, saw jobs and such.  Happy Sawing!  ;D
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Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2013, 05:41:41 PM »
I like your prices on logs, not getting that down here.  Doyle is most used, smaller kerf is your reward for that price.
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2013, 05:48:33 PM »
East Texas Sawmills does help out alot.Could of titled it East Texas Sawmill Log Prices too.With "East Texas" members from the area will read and post.I doubt he will allow another topic.
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Offline Bibbyman

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2013, 05:57:05 PM »
A good place to network with sawyers in your area is by attending a forestry show or other event in your region.  Organize and coordinate with others in your area.  It happens every year somewhere.

We didn't get to any shows or open houses in 2012 but we normally hit the Wood-Mizer open house in Missouri, the Kentucky Forest Expo, Missouri Forestry Show (held every other year) and the Ozark Farm show each fall in Springfield, Missouri.  We always know of other Forum members that also plan to attend and meet others we didn't know were coming.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2013, 06:10:13 PM »
You're right. I'm not sure I approve of this at all. I absolutely think of the Forestry Forum as a whole. Slicing it up into little discussion groups just ain't going to happen. The first post as a simple question pointed at the intended area I have no problem with, but the idea that the topic might be confined to a certain group of people, simply because of where they live can't happen here.

There are also legal ramifications about groups getting together to discuss prices.  Prices can be reported and published as I understand it, but a group of like businesses cannot sit around and discuss such things with the intent to act an a group. All kinds of words come to mind like anti-trust, collusion and price fixing. I'm in no position to understand what would be legally allowable, and absolutely entertain no desire to sort it out.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2013, 06:12:25 PM »
By-The-Way,  It didn't take very long to get the first report to moderator about this topic's proposal.
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Offline learner

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2013, 06:24:35 PM »
Enough said and I understand.  Like I said, just a thought.  Your the boss Jeff and the rules must be followed.
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Offline WDH

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2013, 09:10:36 PM »
Competitors are not allowed to discuss prices.  Portable Sawyers may not be competitors on the same scale as the large mills in terms of being able to impact the market, but it would be thorny. 
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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2013, 09:24:52 PM »
I have never discussed my pricing structure with another sawyer.  That information is between me and the customer.  Actually, I do not even know what other sawyers in my area charge.
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Offline francismilker

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2013, 09:44:53 PM »
I'm new here and obviously a novice but here's my two cents.........

I understand how getting small groups together and trying to form some type of price alliance could be looked down upon legally.  However, as a newby, I've asked the question "how much do you charge?" just to know I'm in the correct ballpark.  It's been years since I've sawed and have never done it on a sole income based scale so I'd like to charge the customer a fair price while I'm not doing it for free. 

I agree MM that the price you charge is between you and the customer.  I'm not in "logging" country and I don't live ANY where near another sawyer to my knowledge so there isn't possibility of me inadvertantly undercutting his price.  I'm not in this to get rich.  I just want to have an enjoyable time and pay for my hobby as I go.  I am not able to look at it as my bread and butter because it's not. 

Great viewpoints here.  It's nice to understand both sides of the coin.
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Offline drobertson

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2013, 10:02:01 PM »
I have worked with two different mills in the last lil while, and can say that it is very competive.  Pretty much goes without saying.  I figure it like this, if I can buy logs and make money, good enough, If I have custormers, which I do, and custom cut for them, this is good too, most all the mills around here are procuction mills with crews, and this means overhead, which of course means keeping the nose above water at all cost.   david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline Jeff

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2013, 10:22:10 PM »
Quote
I know I can check several places for the going rates but they ALL want money for information that I think should be free.

It's far from free to collect, compile and distribute the information. That is why there is a charge for it. You are actually paying for the service. If your state happens to have free market reports, don't consider that free. Its being paid for with someones taxes. What you are getting is an average of all of those providing information for the report. Hopefully the data providers are honest in the reporting, but I don't think that can be guaranteed, however the anonymity such data collections provide helps promote the honesty in submitting data.

I used to sit on the MFRA board (Michigan Forest Resource Alliance.) I was the sawmill flunky in the bunch, and the rest were high ups in the regional Georgia Pacific, Weyerhaeuser, International Paper, Louisiana Pacific, and several other Forest Product Companies. I can tell you, that when coming together to discuss Educational Programs, Ut was made DanG clear to every board member, that never were you to discuss pricing. That was a huge legal no-no.

I do believe, that if a group of portable sawyers, coming together under an organization, even like the Forestry Forum, they may very well fall under the same type of laws.

 There has never been a problem with asking how much someone charges, but you should understand that what you are being told, is only what the person telling wants you to know.

At our mill, usually like clockwork, about once every couple weeks, and almost always at noon, there would be a male caller, and not necessarily the same guy every time, call and ask how much it would be for certain things, Usually hardwood 4 by 4s lr 2 by stuff by the thousand  feet. They always had a slight German/Dutch accent.  We knew who they were, and what they were doing, and we had special pricing we were supposed to give them when they called. Special meant significantly higher than our real prices.
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Offline francismilker

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2013, 10:40:29 PM »
Quote
I know I can check several places for the going rates but they ALL want money for information that I think should be free.

It's far from free to collect, compile and distribute the information. That is why there is a charge for it. You are actually paying for the service. If your state happens to have free market reports, don't consider that free. Its being paid for with someones taxes. What you are getting is an average of all of those providing information for the report. Hopefully the data providers are honest in the reporting, but I don't think that can be guaranteed, however the anonymity such data collections provide helps promote the honesty in submitting data.

I used to sit on the MFRA board (Michigan Forest Resource Alliance.) I was the sawmill flunky in the bunch, and the rest were high ups in the regional Georgia Pacific, Weyerhaeuser, International Paper, Louisiana Pacific, and several other Forest Product Companies. I can tell you, that when coming together to discuss Educational Programs, Ut was made DanG clear to every board member, that never were you to discuss pricing. That was a huge legal no-no.

I do believe, that if a group of portable sawyers, coming together under an organization, even like the Forestry Forum, they may very well fall under the same type of laws.

 There has never been a problem with asking how much someone charges, but you should understand that what you are being told, is only what the person telling wants you to know.

At our mill, usually like clockwork, about once every couple weeks, and almost always at noon, there would be a male caller, and not necessarily the same guy every time, call and ask how much it would be for certain things, Usually hardwood 4 by 4s lr 2 by stuff by the thousand  feet. They always had a slight German/Dutch accent. We knew who they were, and what they were doing, and we had special pricing we were supposed to give them when they called. Special meant significantly higher than our real prices.

Kinda funny you mention it Jeff, but the lumber yard I worked at as a teenager had the same policy when that certain someone from another yard would call checking prices on specific boards!
"whatsoever thy hands finds to do; do it with thy might" Ecc. 9:10

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Offline drobertson

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2013, 08:37:22 AM »
Not sure if I am getting off track here with this but, on other posts discussing cross ties, prices and the such, I use the same priciples in selling lumber. If I have to fill an order that requires tie logs, this is the base price for the lumber and up. As far a pine lumber goes, I have mad many calls to the lumber yard pricing lumber, if I can turn a dollar I will, otherwise if I feel like they can do better elsewhere I won't hesitate to tell them. This of course is when I am selling lumber from logs I have purchased.   Some folks just want green lumber from local areas for their projects and don't mind paying for it.  Custom cutting is and always will be done to suit the customer, with an occasionl suggestion once in awhile.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline learner

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2015, 05:56:52 PM »
All being said I think my original post and the motive behind it was mis-understood.  Like land owners selling their timber we saw mill owners only have the word of any loggers we deal with as to how much per ton the particular type of wood cost.  I had an independant tree service owner pull in here last week wanting to sell me some cedar logs.  5 logs and the biggest being 18 foot long and 16 inches on the top end.  He said there was a guy 20 miles north of me that would pay $400 for that one log.  Now old growth cedar here is fairly hard to come by but $400?  My point is without having to pay $500 a year for a timber report and then guestimating what the loggers are charging to harvest & deliver it, How do we small saw mills insure we aren't being overcharged for saw logs?  That was my only motivation behind asking what other east texas saw mill owners were paying for their saw logs.  I run an honest mill here and undercutting any competition just doesn't sit right with me.  I just want to know if I'm paying a fair price for the logs I buy.  If other mills in east texas are paying more or less then I'm either being over charged or not paying a fair price to independent loggers and land owners.
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2015, 06:09:20 PM »
I'm kinda mean,tell him to drive 20 miles North and pick up his $400.  ::) If you did buy that log for $400 could you make money on it? That is really the question. In my area I don't think so,or I should say no way!!!
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Offline ozarkgem

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Re: East Texas Sawmills
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2015, 07:57:47 PM »
A good place to network with sawyers in your area is by attending a forestry show or other event in your region.  Organize and coordinate with others in your area.  It happens every year somewhere.

We didn't get to any shows or open houses in 2012 but we normally hit the Wood-Mizer open house in Missouri, the Kentucky Forest Expo, Missouri Forestry Show (held every other year) and the Ozark Farm show each fall in Springfield, Missouri.  We always know of other Forum members that also plan to attend and meet others we didn't know were coming.
Where is the Mo Forestry show? I done a search and nothing came up. Is it this year?
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