Messing with Sketchup - my cabin idea

[Ljohnsaw]

Looking great! 

Looks like all the tenons on the post are cut with an offset of 3".     Normally, a tenon would be laid out 2" (tongue size on square) from the reference face.   The tenon would end be offset, but that works fined. 

Yeah, been messing with that.  Originally, there was too much going on in the joints and centering fixed it.  I'll be using a Big Al (homemade) so the offsets would not be an issue, whatever they end up being.

The layout for the King posts and ridge are  done from the timber centerline. In that case you probably want the tenon centered.

Girt tenons are on the outside of the building. Where you just going to nail these in.   You can put the tenon on the inside and slip them in during assembly like you do for a knee brace.

I figured I'd have enough to do without worrying about those as well.  I'll just nail them in, they will be hidden anyway.  They are not structural, just a nailing point for the wall boards and a "sill" for the windows.

I would drop some of the Knee braces in the open areas inside the building.

On the first floor, right?  That will make for lots of bracing!

Knee braces with girts on the building end looks problematic. As you when you cut this you will not have two reference faces.   I would drop that upper girt and move the braces to the outside (reference face) of the building.

The upper girt is a reference for the top of the windows.  Not sure I want to lower them.  As for the reference faces, I am "assuming" that on the first 4 bents, the reference edge is the west outside corner.  That is, the west face and the other face toward the outside of the building (north side - north, south side - south).  The extreme east bent (#5) would be working off the east face.

So the tie beams housing would be measured of the north or south faces, not the inside faces, correct?  The girts housings on the long walls (north and south side) would be referenced from the west (except #5) face.  So, I being a novice, don't see a problem in setting the braces back from the face to make room for the girts. 

PLEASE, enlighten me if I've made an impossible design!!!

[Rooster]

John,

I would eliminate the diagonal near the stairs.  Even though all the wind-bracing makes up the system, removing one won't be the end of the world.

Will there be any inspection on this building?  Not worried about codes?

I also forgot to mention that the first step up from the basement is a bit tall...kind of like the old saying,"That first step is a doozie!"

Rooster

[Ljohnsaw]

John,

I would eliminate the diagonal near the stairs.  Even though all the wind-bracing makes up the system, removing one won't be the end of the world.

Will there be any inspection on this building?  Not worried about codes?

I also forgot to mention that the first step up from the basement is a bit tall...kind of like the old saying,"That first step is a doozie!"

Rooster

OK, removed the one brace, added a bunch of knee braces along the long walls.  Didn't think they would be necessary on the short walls with all the other bracing going on.

Fixed the stairs, doubled up the floor joist but still need to calc it.  Adjusted the front door opening and attached it to the tie beam.

Yes, I will be having it engineered and inspected.  Too close to civilization...

[Rooster]

John,

I see that you doubled up that floor joist...you would only need to double it up from the sidewall foundation to the top of the center load beam...not the entire width of the building.

And revisiting the second floor opening for your stairway... your stairs are probably wide enough for code, but the reduced size of the opening, which you have at 31", is probably not. I am not a code expert, I only want you to be sure before you take your plans to an engineer...less headaches down the road.

Is it possible to narrow the distance between the stringers from 41" to 36", spread the distance between the upper floor joists from 31" to outside the stringers at 44"?  I know that you have the joists spaced at 36" o.c., but I think that it would look better.

Rooster

PS  Now all you need is a carved wooden Viking dragon along the ridge line... ;)

[Ljohnsaw]

John,

I see that you doubled up that floor joist...you would only need to double it up from the sidewall foundation to the top of the center load beam...not the entire width of the building.

And revisiting the second floor opening for your stairway... your stairs are probably wide enough for code, but the reduced size of the opening, which you have at 31", is probably not. I am not a code expert, I only want you to be sure before you take your plans to an engineer...less headaches down the road.

Is it possible to narrow the distance between the stringers from 41" to 36", spread the distance between the upper floor joists from 31" to outside the stringers at 44"?  I know that you have the joists spaced at 36" o.c., but I think that it would look better.

Rooster

PS  Now all you need is a carved wooden Viking dragon along the ridge line... ;)

Rooster,

I just re-read you note about the tread width and modifying the floor joists - it now makes sense to me.  I'll have to give that a try.

In the meantime...

I was adjusting the structure (the foundation) to be 6" shorter so I end up at an even foot mark - makes the use of Faswall blocks much easier.  Somehow, I blew away my whole foundation.  But, that was actually good news.  I originally started with the foundation and didn't really understand the concept of Components.  I made the entire foundation a thing and editing it was a bear.  I now have three components - the footing, the walls and the slab.

So I've added what I think will be the bathroom space.  The bump out will be the shower.  It gives a little mini-hallway that I will probably make into a linen closet on one end and a pantry for the kitchen in the other end.

So, what to do about the braces inside the living space?  I put up some guide lines at 6' 8".  The braces project out into the living space about 20" at that height.  Is that a problem, should I down-size those braces? Put some furniture or a plant there so no one will walk there?  Should I make them curved? If I do, do I need to make all of them curved for aesthetic reasons?  In all, there are 7 to consider (one removed at the staircase).

[Rooster]

Rooster,

So, what to do about the braces inside the living space?  I put up some guide lines at 6' 8".  The braces project out into the living space about 20" at that height.  Is that a problem, should I down-size those braces? Put some furniture or a plant there so no one will walk there?  Should I make them curved? If I do, do I need to make all of them curved for aesthetic reasons?  In all, there are 7 to consider (one removed at the staircase).

I went and placed a "carpenter" who stands about 5'9" into your frame near an interior diagonal. I did not alter the last drawing that you uploaded.

My suggestion would be to add the equivalent of at least one step  to the bottom of all the posts (~7.5", which will make the additional step easier to add) this will raise the tie-beam and diagonal heights, making it easier to  pass by a post without bumping your head. It will also make the rooms feel larger and make it easier to add ceiling fans with the added height. You could make the diagonals smaller, but I like the size for your wind-load.

Rooster


 

[Ljohnsaw]

Rooster,

I don't know what I was thinking - maybe the stair clearance of 6' 8".  Though, that is a short carpenter!  I went through and "finished" the kitchen, adjusted the stair width (code says must be min 36" clear tread), downsized the stringers to 3" thick, spaced the second floor joists at 48" OC.  I also raised the second floor by 7.5" to move up the braces.  At 6', you have to be within 8" of the braces to smack your head.  I'm good with that.

[Rooster]

Hey! Watch who you're callin' short!      haha

I like the second floor joists on the outside of the stair stringers...but I would go back to your previous joist spacing, tuck the stairwell as close to the interior post as you can (you can utilize the post for handrails and you could also add another post, on the other side, at the bottom of the stairs for the other handrail), and don't worry about being completely symmetrical with your joist layout... think of the staircase and it's two corresponding joists as a separate unit that you are placing where you need, that is not in line or o.c. with other joists. Try it,... Function will prevail over Pretty.

Also, all of the interior door lintels and your door lintel/upper girt on the end-wall could be brought down to frame the top of the door openings.

Good Job,

Rooster

[Ljohnsaw]

OK, one more time...

I've reduced the foundation to an odd foot mark to make the Faswall block system work without cutting or using "1/2" blocks (1'x1').  Now the foundation is 51'x25' and the inside of the plank walls / outside of the timbers is 50'-4"x24'-4".

I've re-aligned the stairs to the center post, "built out" the kitchen and bath.  Not sure of the space used by the shower - might reduce that to make room for a linen closest/pantry closet between the shower wall and the stairs.

I lowered the interior door lintels to 6' 10" (I think) to frame out a 6'8" or so door (custom made by me).  I raised the girts for the windows.  I put in 2"x11" planks to make the box for the 3'x4' windows.  The girts (4") + 1" of board, 5" of rigid insulation and a 1" cleat to attach the concrete lap siding.  Between the cleats, another inch of rigid foam.

Comments please!

[Rooster]

Here's my short list:

You have the first floor flooring running out past the outside of the outer posts.

Interior walls sticking out past frame?

You might need a couple short posts at the bottom of the first floor stair landing for handrails and so that it's not a trip hazard traveling in and out of the kitchen area,

The walkway between the stairs and the breakfast bar is a bit narrow.

The guardrail at the top of the second floor landing needs to be updated.

Lower girts on either side of the front door???

Fireplace?  lol

Keep on Keepin' on!!

Rooster

[Ljohnsaw]

Here's my short list:

You have the first floor flooring running out past the outside of the outer posts.

Interior walls sticking out past frame?

You might need a couple short posts at the bottom of the first floor stair landing for handrails and so that it's not a trip hazard traveling in and out of the kitchen area,

The walkway between the stairs and the breakfast bar is a bit narrow.

The guardrail at the top of the second floor landing needs to be updated.

Lower girts on either side of the front door???

Fireplace?  lol

Keep on Keepin' on!!

Rooster

Well, crud - I posted the wrong file!!  This was an incremental save.  I'll try to get the right one posted tonight.  As for a fireplace, that funny little pad in front of the second bent is a hearth for a wood stove.

[Rooster]

John,

You wound a little tight about this project?  Are you getting enough sleep without dreaming about this frame? :D :D :D

You'll get there!!


Rooster

[Ljohnsaw]

Ha Ha...  I typically work on it from about 8:30 until midnight and then think about it for an hour or two when I go to bed!  I want to get this ready so I can break ground this summer. However, I first must get a producing well installed on my property as well as some septic system. So, I want to have my plans approved by an engineer so the County will accept them. Lots to do and the warm spell we are having now is giving me spring fever!

Stay tuned!

[Ljohnsaw]

OK, try this one!  My son told me to fix the year!!!

[Rooster]

Ok...Let's fire up the mill!!!

[Jay C. White Cloud]

I'm with Roster, your there my friend. Maybe, since you are going the oblique brace way and are in California, you should just add a few buttress braces on the first floor at the Gable ends, otherwise start milling!!! 8)

Regards,

jay

[Ljohnsaw]

I'm with Roster, your there my friend. Maybe, since you are going the oblique brace way and are in California, you should just add a few buttress braces on the first floor at the Gable ends, otherwise start milling!!! 8)

Regards,

jay

Are you saying that because of earth quakes?  I'm too far away for anything major.  Though it wouldn't hurt!

Would you do just the corner posts or the middle post as well?

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Hi John,

Well actually, of the oblique braces, the ones that emulate nature, (like at the base of a tree,) are then ones that really work the best.  you can get away without them in the living area, but the gables wouldn't hurt.  Matter of fact, most frames that have oblique braces, would benefit more from them at the base of a member, then up high on the post.

Now remember, I saying this as a generalization of where they perform the best.  In general, with modern timber framing methods and other regional modalities, as I have already stated much earlier in this post thread, you could take most of the oblique bracing in this frame out and still pass muster.

I like your frame, it speaks to your taste and design since, so don't second guess yourself now.  As I had said, I've just been watch'n for the most part, because this is more of the European design them, and I follow Asian metaphors in architecture for myself, that's my taste.

In short, buttress braces won't hurt...NO, you don't have to have them, the wall diaphragm will take care of that.

Get to mill'n as Rooster said.   ;) 

[Ljohnsaw]

Hi John,

<<snip>>

Get to mill'n as Rooster said.   ;)

I played with it for a while and added the buttress braces, as you call them, on the end bents.  They actually look kind of good there.  But only on the center posts.

I trimmed out the wall boards so I can view the inside and really get a feel for how it will look.  I like it.

I can't "git a millin'" right now.  I have to procure a permit to build - before that, I have to have the plans approved by an engineer.  Before that, I need to have a water supply and septic.  Soooo, when the weather is cooperating (in about 4-5 months), I will have the well guys out to see if we can find water.  At the same time, have an engineer go over my plans.  If that all works out - then I build the foundation this summer and construct next summer. 

I've got a price on the composite ICF (Faswall) of $7.84/sqft of wall area (outside) so I'm looking at about $14k in block + the concrete to fill (.333 cuft/sqft).

This is gonna be fun! 8)

[Ljohnsaw]

Final drawing (I hope...).  I've completed the skin with rigid foam, battens and hardi-plank walls and sheet metal roof.  I sent this off to an engineer for his look-see and to find out if he wants to do the work or someone he knows that does timber frames will take it on.

Next step is septic, then well.

[Rooster]

Are you sure this is the final drawing?

Is this the one you sent to the engineer?

Rooster

[Ljohnsaw]

Are you sure this is the final drawing?

Is this the one you sent to the engineer?

Rooster

Ummm, I think so and yes...  Why, is there a glaring error?

[Rooster]

Umm...I'm looking at a frame with window frame-outs...no skin with rigid foam, no battens or hardi-plank walls and no sheet metal roofing...

oops!

Send us a different one...when you have time.   ;)

Rooster

[Ljohnsaw]

I sent it like this becuase I want him to see timbers. Try enabling the "layers" dropdown and turn on all the different components.

[Jay C. White Cloud]

Boy, you got good at Sketchup.  I'm still learn'n how to designate "layers," but turning them on and off is easy, great idea on your part.  The PE can really take things apart fast. 

Good Job