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Author Topic: doyle log scale  (Read 8945 times)

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Offline hilltop

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doyle log scale
« on: January 19, 2002, 09:48:30 AM »
 why no 8ft on the doyle log scale? what is the correct way scale an 8ft log ? :-/

Offline Tom

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2002, 10:40:56 AM »
The scale isn't limited to lengths, although some scales are more accurate than others for certain sized logs.  I just tried the calculator in the Toolbox and got an answer, click the toolbox on the left.

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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2002, 10:59:30 AM »
All logs should be scaled inside bark.  I've heard of guys who scale 1 bark, which means to scale the bark on one side of the log.  This is usually done by guys who are buying thin barked species like birch or cherry.

You then take a deduction for defect, such as sweep or rot.  I've boxed the rot out, and made deductions like that.  In other cases, I might just slip it down and inch or 2, depending on the defect, and log grade.

I don't know of any log scale that goes below 8 inches.  That is the sawlog cut-off point.  Below that it is considered pulp and generally sold by the ton.
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Offline hilltop

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2002, 11:54:44 AM »
My scale starts at 10ft goes to 18ft in 2ft incr, it does not have 8ft on it  :-/

Offline Ron Scott

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2002, 12:24:31 PM »
It may depend upon where you got your scale stick or who made it. I have two doyle sticks, one is 8' to 16 foot, the other is 10' to 16'. Don't know why, 8' foot log cuts are common.
~Ron

Offline Jeff

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2002, 01:53:58 PM »
Ron S, when your consulting, do you work on doyle or international. I still see International as the fairest and most accurate of the log rules.

Ron W, do you think we need to upgrade a log volume calculator to do what our B.F. calculator does? I mean add and tally the logs to a grand total? Maybe add the print function like the TBN members BF Calc does?

Oh, by the way Ron and I did develop a Boardfoot Calculator that allows you to add your company information (And remembers it between uses) and also custiomers name and info, then tallies all the lumber and species of individual lumber to a print form Where you can print it out.
It has been available to members of the Timber Buyers Network.  I know of several Michigan Mills that keep a copy on thier computer and use it daily for figuring custom orders and even wholesale truckload orders. It will keep track by the piece, number of pieces, and bundles.

If anybody is interested in it let me know. Maybe I,ll put a link to it in the Forestry Forum Full Members Section.
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Offline Tillaway

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2002, 01:59:40 PM »
Scribner scale, with Columbia, Puget Sound Log Scaling Burea rules for Hardwood and Softwood.  Five inches gets you 4 saw, 6 inches is the break to 3 saw for all softwoods.  6" inches put you at a 4 saw for Red Alder and Maple.  8" inches can get you a J8 for export, but it has to be real good.  Export grades are not in the burea book and are a bit "subjective". ;) :P
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Offline Don P

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2002, 02:04:28 PM »
Huh?
After you said Scribner there was a bunch o Greek on my screen :D.
I had a BF scale with no 8, just got good a halfsies.
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Offline Tillaway

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2002, 03:15:10 PM »
Don,

OOOOPs sorry...I was speaking in "Tongues".  Sometimes I just can't control it.  My therapist has said that I have "made great strides toward recovery". ;D ;) 8)
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2002, 04:22:07 AM »
Most guys use a Doyle folding log rule.  I now remember that there isn't any 8' log length on that.

There is no taper allowance for log scale.  So, an 8' log volume is just half of a 16' log.  If the logs are longer than 18', you can double the volume.

Log scale formula for Doyle is (diameter - 4)^2 * length/16

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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2002, 07:20:01 AM »
I use International 1/4 in all consulting work. The USDA Forest Service and State have used it for some time as the fairest and most accurate as you indicate.

Some Decimal C is used in the UP, but most mills still buy logs on Doyle. Stumpage is sold on International 1/4 however.
~Ron

Offline hilltop

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2002, 08:09:02 AM »
Thanks Ron that was the answer i was looking for, 1/2  16ft will be the 8ft they dont have  on the scale,  thanks again. :)

Offline Gordon

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2002, 01:21:18 PM »
Ron W. that was too simple of an answer. Once I read it, I just shook my head---why didn't I think of that.  ;)

Will it ever come down to one standard scale for all?

Gordon

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2002, 01:31:51 PM »
The only standard that you could come up with is cubic volume.  My understanding is that is what is used in Canada.

Weight is not a good measure, since trees growing at different rates will vary.  How do you weigh a veneer log?

Log buyers love the Doyle scale.  It underscales all the small logs.  Since they hold the purse strings, they stay with that scale.  Anyone selling logs want to know what sort of Doyle volume there is in a stand.

Foresters like International, since it gives them more volume in a stand.  Timber buyers like Doyle, since they can inflate their $/Mbf quote.

Sales in our area are sold in lump sum bids, not $/Mbf.  They include both Doyle and International scales.  Some foresters will underscale their sales to keep their $/Mbf higher as a sales technique.

Bottom line is that $1000 worth of logs is worth $1000, no matter how its measured.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2002, 01:49:51 PM »
Over the years I have done several volume studies of logs that I have sawn.

We will lay out 20 logs of variable size, and then scale them all with doyle, then international. I will then saw those logs and we will then measure the lumber for total Board footage. Always, the international scale comes the closest to estimating the actual footage contained in the logs.

My interest is not in what scale to buy on or what scale to sell on. My interest is what scale most accuratly estimates the footage contained within those logs. Not whats the best deal depending on what side of the stick your on.

I would pick International hands down for acuraccy
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Offline Tom

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2002, 03:14:21 PM »
Whooee-e--e,  that makes me a simpleton.............

I saw a log and go count the boards that came out of it and say...."Look at all them boards that came out of that log..." :D
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Offline Jeff

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2002, 05:16:03 PM »
No Tom, that makes you your own boss.

I had to do those sort of things to cover my own butt. Young sawyers working for other people tend to get questioned on their production and yield rates. I started off doing that for self preservation, and then continued through the years on occasion out of my own sense of curiosity.
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Offline Tom

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2002, 05:18:20 PM »




Oh-h-h-h--h
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Offline Jeff

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2002, 05:25:21 PM »
You spent a week with me, you know I'm like a little kid thats says why does.. what does... and why is... all the time.
Just call me the midget doctor.
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Offline Tom

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Re: doyle log scale
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2002, 05:30:06 PM »
admirable Jeff, admirable.  I like to see youngsters with an inquiring mind.  I hope I'm as inquiring as you when I'm your age.   :D 8).

Oh, don't go down to the "Chainsaw" topic and try to learn sumthin'.  Those guys are talking another language. ::)
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