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Author Topic: blade rollers  (Read 1897 times)

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Offline xlogger

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blade rollers
« on: March 03, 2013, 06:25:21 PM »
How many of you roll your blades when you sharpen them? Do you think it helps? Ricky
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2013, 07:39:22 PM »
I don't sharpen my own blades, but the guy that I just started using is very meticulous about his blades.  He checks each one and rolls the ones that need it.  Don't ask me how he decides which ones need rolling.  I can give you his contact info in a PM if you'd like.  I know he'd be more than happy to discuss the topic with you.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2013, 08:40:11 PM »
I don't sharpen my own blades, but the guy that I just started using is very meticulous about his blades. 

What I was trying to say is that he treats every blade as if it were his blade. :)
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Offline dboyt

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2013, 09:44:04 AM »
Whether it helps depends on the type of band wheel.  Some bandwheels are worse than others about bending the blade.  You can put a steel straight edge across the blade and look for any crosswise bending.  My experience is that it helps.  Like GA Mtn Man, I send my blades out for sharpening, and they get rolled if they need them.  Been very satisfied, but don't have anything else to compare them to.
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

Offline ladylake

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2013, 11:44:37 AM »

 I've gotton along a long time with no roller with 1-1/4 blades, I think they benifit 1-1/2 + blades more.  Steve
Timberking B20 14000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline Chuck White

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2013, 10:58:19 PM »
I believe you're right Steve!

I use the 1 inch WM Double Hards and have never had a problem relative to blade rolling!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF 1989, Retired School Bus Driver 2012, now semi-retired Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline JustinW_NZ

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2013, 11:20:26 PM »
Whats a sign they need rolling?
The straight edge trick the easy way to tell?

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2013, 05:19:12 AM »
All this rolling talk, can someone show me who sells a band roller?  ::)  Among its uses, it would be good for quickly fixing over-set bands.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline kelLOGg

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2013, 05:57:28 AM »
Cook Saw sells them and swears by them, for all size bands (even 1.25 inchers) and all wheels, tired and crowned. Ask them for a video. The roller won't correct for overset. It's non-intuitive how it works; a ball-shaped roller contacts one side of the blade - not sure about the contact for the other side.
I have checked my bands w/ a straight edge and have seen a crack of light indicating curvature but I have also seen the same crack on new bands (Simonds Red Streak) right out of the box.  ??? I don't roll my bands but would love to try it to see if it corrects the slight rising in the cut I experience.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 16HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
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Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2013, 09:27:02 AM »
My neighbor has a gadget, nogt a band roller  that I think he got from WM which takes the set out of over set blades.
I have used it on occasion and it works well.
I am wondering if rolling is only necessary when using crowned wheels?
Pete
 
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Offline millwright

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2013, 06:55:05 PM »
I've used an english wheel to take the set out of a couple of blades that had hit rocks with good results.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2013, 07:06:45 PM »
 In simple terms, can someone explain what you are talking about/issue?  I'm thinking you are referring to an unequal lengthening of the blade during its life. Somehow you can "roll" (squish it to make it longer) one edge to make it "straight" again?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Chuck White

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2013, 07:15:38 PM »
A blade roller flattens the band.

It is run lengthwise of the band.

Using a straight edge, lay it on the band front to back, if you see an air gap under the straight edge, the band would then be rolled.
~Chuck~
Retired USAF 1989, Retired School Bus Driver 2012, now semi-retired Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2013, 07:25:00 PM »
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2013, 07:26:51 PM »
Ok, so the band developes a cup, conforming to the crown of the band wheel, right?  That could mess up the cutting abality!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline customsawyer

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2013, 07:29:58 PM »
To check if the blade needs rolled I use a utility knife and place it across the blade. If there is daylight in the middle or on the ends of the blade it needs to be rolled. What causes the blade to cup in the middle of the blade is the fact that everything you do to or with that blade is done to the leading edge of the blade. Over time it will make the leading edge of the blade a little longer than the back of the blade. Rolling of the blade will elongate the back edge of the blade thus making it flat.
Most of my blades are 1" and it is rare that I have one that needs rolled. I do run my blades longer than most so 3-4 sharpening is all I normally get. If I do get a blade that gives me trouble and everything else is right then I check the flatness of the blade.
There were a few post made while I was pecking out on the putter.
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Offline beenthere

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 08:01:59 PM »
customsawyer
I wish that explanation made sense to me, but it doesn't add up to a blade that has a hump across its width (and that hump is what we are hearing is the problem).
But I'll sit tight until something comes along that does explain (to me) what rolling does to remove that hump across the width. ;)  And I may just be too dense to ever understand it, so don't distress over my problem.
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline Ga Mtn Man

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2013, 08:44:55 PM »
Ok, so the band developes a cup, conforming to the crown of the band wheel, right?  That could mess up the cutting abality!

It's counter intuitive, but it actually develops a cup away from the band wheel crown.  Take one of your bands and bend a curve in it about the diameter of your band wheels and check the blade for flatness on the curved portion.  You'll see the concavity on the outside of the band.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Offline customsawyer

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2013, 06:26:54 AM »
Beenthere I feel your pain. It took me along time to understand how it worked and what was happening.
I will try to explain it another way. In the process of cutting with and sharpening your blades the blade becomes a fraction of a thousandth longer between each tooth. When you add that fraction of a thousandth up over 210 teeth, on my blades, it makes the leading edge of the blade a few thousandth of a inch longer then the back edge of the blade. This is what causes the cupping of the blade. When rolling the blade you adjust it to where the roller is making contact on the back 1/3 of the blade. The best picture of how it works for me is imagine a blacksmith with a narrow piece of metal on their anvil. As he hammers it and moves it along his anvil it will slowly get longer. While the roller has no hammering effect it has the same concentrated compression effect as the hammering. I hope this helps to make it clear as mud. ;D
Two LT70s and to much other support equipment to mention.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: blade rollers
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2013, 09:39:58 AM »
Custom,
Thanks. I totally understand what you are saying. Now a question:  do you notice this growth in the leading edge as a function of using the blade (cutting, heat buildup from the cut or bending around the wheels) or from the sharpening/setting process?  Just curious. Also, as a matter of practice, do you check every blade before use (including new), before sharpening or just when an issue rears up?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.


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