The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Chainsawr, The Worlds Largest Inventory of Chainsaw Parts





Author Topic: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures  (Read 2848 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline REGULAR GUY

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
    • Share Post
SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« on: April 27, 2013, 06:14:23 PM »
Howdy all, We are in So. East Missouri and are gonna build a home useing our own resources (hopefully). I was planning  to use SYP for all the structural lumber including the floor joists. I've not heard otherwise from locals, except one carpenter, that I barely know, that he says the SYP will rot. The floor joists will be at least 36" off the ground and will be treated.........any thoughts or advice... all is welcome to me. If SYP is acceptable, what is a good treatment to use after (or before) they are installed ?    Also, I do not have any place to air dry other than building a "shed" in the woods. Any advice on how to build a "platform" (  for strength to stack w/o saggin) for the first row, how far off the ground to stack them and whether I should treat them for bug/mold and would that treatment effect the other treatment or are they both the same?  Sorry for all the questions at once but I don't wanna start from the git go on the wrong foot. Thank's ya'll in advance for your advice!!   Regular Guy

Offline Ianab

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13561
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Stratford , New Zealand
  • Gender: Male
  • Marmite on toast is a real breakfast
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2013, 07:36:33 PM »
Main thing with pine is to get it dry, and keep it dry. Then most of your problems will go away. In ground contact or any place wet, then bad things happen (bugs, rot, mould etc)

You could use a Borate spray to discourage bugs while the wood is drying. It also dries on the wood and gives it some ongoing protection. It's only the surface layer, but that's where the bugs lay their eggs, so it useful.

As for the drying stack. Some concrete blocks, then some sturdy "sleepers" laid the length of the stack and start stacking on the that. That should then be flat and maybe 12" off the ground. Gives good air flow under the stack, and keeps it clear of rain splashing off the ground. Cover the top to keep sun and rain off, and leave the sides open for maximum airflow. You can't dry pine too fast, and the sooner you get it dry the better. A little mould or stain is only cosmetic, wont affect the structural properties, as long as you get it dry and the fungus is stopped.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline Tree Feller

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 991
  • Age: 68
  • Location: Tyler, Texas
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2013, 10:23:44 PM »
What Ian said.
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

Online Magicman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 39197
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Brookhaven, MS
  • Gender: Male
  • A "Traveling Man"
    • Share Post
    • Knothole Sawmill
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2013, 04:56:54 PM »
Sticker it and lay metal roofing across the top and it will dry nicely.  I did not have roofing so I covered the tops of my stickered stacks with a tented tarp.  Maybe not the best, but it was what I had and it caused no problems.  Use plenty of vents around the foundation to insure that no moisture accumulates.  There is nothing but SYP in this:  Cabin Addition

This thread takes the ongoing build from the standing trees forward, so if you want to skip ahead, the floor joist are stickered in Reply #29, on the site in Reply #114, and installed in Reply #124.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline Al_Smith

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10322
  • Location: Northwestern Ohio in the center of a giant corn field
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2013, 08:28:11 PM »
In this area of the country we obviously do not have southern yellow pine .However any structure I have ever built I've always used it for floor joists .Heavy as lead and nearly as hard as oak ,strong .A tad more costly than fir but worth the price IMO .

Offline Tee

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Moncks Corner, SC
  • Gender: Male
  • All the years I just burned the things.
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2013, 08:55:47 PM »
Here in the southeast, it's like the only thing used for all framing. One huge point will be if your local codes and inspectors will allow you to us it in framing without it being kiln dried and grading stamped.

Offline Planman1954

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 816
  • Location: Marion, Louisiana
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 09:02:38 PM »
A simple way to use SYP for the floor joist system (and then all other framing):

1) Set a 24"x24" concrete (sacrete) footing every 8' oc. Make it below the frost line for your area.
2) Build a 3 block high concrete block pier set on the footing.
3) Make a termite shield out of sheet metal 4" wider than the top of your blocks and bend it down on an angle to prevent termites from building a tunnel up the side of the blocks.
3) Place a double 2x10 beam onto the termite shield/block piers parallel to one another 8' oc.
4) Build a 2x10x16" oc joist system set onto the beams according to the floor plan.
5) Deck it with 1" rough cut lumber.
6) Roll 30# felt over the decking.
7) Deck it again with surfaced lumber run perpendicular to the first layer of decking.
8) Start framing the house with SYP!
9) Congratulations. You've just built it yourself using your own syp!
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

Online Magicman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 39197
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Brookhaven, MS
  • Gender: Male
  • A "Traveling Man"
    • Share Post
    • Knothole Sawmill
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2013, 09:17:12 PM »
As Tee mentioned, never attempt to use rough sawn framing lumber without (a) it being specified on the architectural drawings, (b) it is properly permitted by your county/city building inspector, and (c) your loan institution and your insurance agency signs off on it.  You do not want to have to remove a partially built structure.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline Al_Smith

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 10322
  • Location: Northwestern Ohio in the center of a giant corn field
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2013, 09:35:16 PM »
It would depend on the area I should think .Here in some areas of the vast cornfield they don't inspect anything unless it's the plumbing and then only the drain lines .

Fact the only people I dealt with at all two years ago after a  house addition was some young lady from the auditors office so they could get more taxes as if they weren't getting enough already ,butt holes humbug   >:(

Online Magicman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 39197
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Brookhaven, MS
  • Gender: Male
  • A "Traveling Man"
    • Share Post
    • Knothole Sawmill
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2013, 10:05:58 PM »
True here also, but if the structure is being financed, it must be build according to the architectural drawings.  HUD will not approve any home built with ungraded framing lumber.

I am just saying that you absolutely need to be very sure that you have your bases covered before using ungraded framing lumber.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline Planman1954

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 816
  • Location: Marion, Louisiana
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 08:29:48 AM »
Hey Magic....even with the stiff code imposed here in Louisiana after Katrina (IRC), you can get a permit if the structure will be labeled a "camp." Then you can use ungraded rough sawn lumber.
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

Offline REGULAR GUY

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 05:10:58 PM »
Gents, I do very much thank ya'll for your time and input.  First I'm tickled that I can use my own SYP for all structural lumber. We live so far back in the sticks they gotta pump us daylite, so no building codes.....still I'm gonna, and want to do things right. There are no arch. plans, sides the plans we're doin ourselves, (builder/carpenter friends, very competent for that part),....I am no grader, but.....I planned to use only the butt logs with knots no bigger than a quarter, and not to many at that........is that good, bad or dumber than dumb?!!?   Too, is that the floor joist are gonna be cut full dimensional, along with some other structural that I can't get Simpsons for.  I understand that cuttin at this time of year (it's a gettin warmer, sap will be a runnin), is not a problem long as I get the logs cut, sealed and stickered ASAP.......true or not?  Sides, I gotta git to gittin, 1st in command says if there's no warm, dry house come Elk season , I ain't goin.      Fellas, Thanks again bunches...I really mean it.     Regular Guy    God Bless

Offline Ianab

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13561
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Stratford , New Zealand
  • Gender: Male
  • Marmite on toast is a real breakfast
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2013, 05:32:42 PM »
Quote
I understand that cuttin at this time of year (it's a gettin warmer, sap will be a runnin), is not a problem long as I get the logs cut, sealed and stickered ASAP.......true or not?

Correct. The wood is no different, but the weather affects how long you can store the logs and how the wood dries. But the sooner you get the logs sawn and drying the better the results you will get.

Pine is harvested all your round here, weather mostly affects access to the sites (mud and bad weather) so more harvesting gets done in the summer. The mills don't stockpile large amounts of logs so they don't degrade in the warmer weather.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Online Magicman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 39197
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Brookhaven, MS
  • Gender: Male
  • A "Traveling Man"
    • Share Post
    • Knothole Sawmill
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2013, 10:13:56 PM »
This may sound strange, but since you will be felling and bucking your own trees, try to avoid the bottom 2' of your logs.  In other words, leave high stumps or either jump butt them and remove at least a foot before you measure and buck the butt log to length.

Why?  The butt log on large trees will have some serious compression stress/wood near the butt.  Many times you can see the bark that is buckling at the base of larger trees.  This compressed wood has a mind of it's own and for my personal use, is better off left in the woods for the termites.

Now on the other hand, if you were selling it, you would understandably want every inch to go on the logging truck. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline REGULAR GUY

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2013, 01:18:10 PM »
These SYP ain't so big at the base, maybe 24" at the largest....don't see any stress at the bark (that's if I even know what I'm lookin at!!!). Tryin to figure what ya mean by "jump butt"???   I buck my logs about a foot longer than needed and then cut off both ends to length after dryin to allow for checking.  Am I in the ballpark as far as the "grading" part of it?  Magic Man, seen your "cabin addition"........ "em was some purdy logs"!!!!  I appreciate ya'lls help, I'm a good listener, so I'm confident I'll do it right. Like Pops used to say, "when ya don't know what your doin, it just takes longer and ya work harder at it".   Thanks again fellas,   Regular Guy

Online Magicman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 39197
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Brookhaven, MS
  • Gender: Male
  • A "Traveling Man"
    • Share Post
    • Knothole Sawmill
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2013, 04:52:30 PM »
Thanks.  I figured "jump butt" would be in the dictionary because I didn't think that is was necessarily a local term.

Anyway, my definition is that if you cut 1' off of a tree's butt  after it had been felled you jump butted it a foot.  Suppose it was a fence row tree and after felling you wanted to get above the wire.  You may have to jump butt it 3'-4'. 

A 24" tree could have compression wood in the butt log, so you jump butting them a foot should get above any troublesome wood.

Compression wood is hard and will sometimes turn the blade especially if you enter the log from the butt end.  I have seen 3-4 boards with a sorta cupped end caused by this.  I looked and apparently I do not have a picture to illustrate what I am trying to describe.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline beenthere

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 26932
  • Location: Southern Wisconsin, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2013, 05:13:44 PM »
MM
You have the right terminology, and it seems to be pretty well understood across the logging industry. Just may have a different name in certain localities. "Jump cut" might also be used.
south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Offline REGULAR GUY

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2013, 06:48:12 PM »
I wouldn't doubt everybody knows that term but me. I actually logged in Scandinavia many moons ago, so I don't know alot of terms.......but I got it now, thanks for the explanation. Another thing I can't do is use the computer, the wife is always here guiding me thru it, God Bless her........but , I did find (actually her) Anchor Seal on the computer and just ordered some today, but where would I get the Tim-bor or some good treatment for bug and mold control while dryin, and is that what I could use on SYP posts for  a pole barn (or whatever) anchored to concrete piers, for treatment against the elements?  I asked around here local, but don't nobody know what I mean....yet.  I surely hope I ain't bein no pain with tons of questions, but ya'll are savin me bunches of time and I respect ya'lls knowledge.  Thanks, Regular Guy

Online Magicman

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 39197
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Brookhaven, MS
  • Gender: Male
  • A "Traveling Man"
    • Share Post
    • Knothole Sawmill
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2013, 07:43:25 PM »
OK, it looks like we are a day too late talking about end sealing and Anchor Seal, because it is not needed with Pine logs or lumber.  End check is not a problem with Pine.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline beenthere

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 26932
  • Location: Southern Wisconsin, USA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: SYP for floor joists and air drying procedures
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2013, 07:55:35 PM »
Regular Guy
No pain whatsoever. Glad to have you, and glad you pulled up a stump to sit and talk a spell.  8)

south central Wisconsin
 It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Drying reclaimed floor joists. Help needed

Started by greenpoint on Drying and Processing

4 Replies
1194 Views
Last post July 14, 2011, 11:23:44 PM
by beenthere
xx
Rough sawn green doug fir for exposed ceiling joists and floor joists

Started by Sedgehammer on Timber Framing/Log construction

18 Replies
1479 Views
Last post February 14, 2019, 12:14:18 AM
by Sedgehammer
xx
Ripping Floor Joists

Started by jander3 on Chainsaws

6 Replies
2449 Views
Last post April 01, 2009, 04:40:32 PM
by Al_Smith
xx
Beech floor joists

Started by arj on The Wisconsin Barn Preservation Program

19 Replies
7830 Views
Last post May 01, 2009, 02:21:06 PM
by Raphael
 


Powered by EzPortal